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[Music]

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you're in the pair cast the gold

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standard of paranormal radio and now

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here's gene Steinberg you know over the

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years we have had pregame and postgame

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shows or segments on the podcast in some

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years we would do the postgame show

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where we would talk about the guests you

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just heard and tell you what you should

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think about it now lately we haven't

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done that we do mostly a pregame show

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where we give you time a week or two to

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figure out what happened on the previous

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show make your comments no and then we

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express our come it's not just force and

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opinion on you I know that some people

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would prefer the postgame interview

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where you rag on the guest I don't think

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we should do that Chris no I don't

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either uh you know people need to to

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listen and make up their own minds they

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don't need some sort of Howard Cosell

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color commentary to kind of force-feed

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our particular personal opinions on

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people I think people are bright enough

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and smart enough to make up their own

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minds about the quality of veracity of a

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guest and I I prefer the you know our

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current modus operandi I would much

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rather introduce a guest and allow the

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guest to you know formulating these sort

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of opinion in our listeners Minds for

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themselves or hang themselves yeah we've

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been doing pretty good lately though

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we've had some really good quality

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guests on I really enjoyed our show with

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Ben Radford

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Jesse Ventura was fascinating what an

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amazing guy you know I think that's the

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quality of the show's is being

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appreciated on our forums too we've had

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some real lively debate and that's a

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good thing well in terms of governor

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Ventura the biggest argument is over the

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Kennedy assassination

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it is fascinating how it happened in

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1963 folks okay so what is that forty

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eight years ago despite that they are

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still debating all the fundamentals

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including whether the rifle that Oswald

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got

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whether the one he bought by mail-order

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was perfectly capable of doing those

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shoots whether he had the capability and

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that's part of the healthy argument you

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see it both ways where Ventura says well

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he's an expert whereas someone like

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Oswald was a marksman which is just

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enough as they say

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just enough sure but regardless of that

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the point being here that this is

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something that will never go away that

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debate will never end I think a hundred

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years from now they'll still be talking

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about the Kennedy assassination and

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whether Oswald did it whether he was

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part of a conspiracy whether he was a

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patsy whatever you know well I think

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it's a paranormal event if you ask me

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like Roswell like 9/11 I think all these

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things are actually they're so

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mysterious and there's so much evidence

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to point to you know in either side on

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either side of the argument that I

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really do I just kind of dismiss and

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dismiss it all and say oh they're just

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paranormal events well that makes it

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easy do you think it trips to was

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okay so mr. trickster tell us were you

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responsible for the Kennedy

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assassination did you plan it were you

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there and Dealey Plaza in Dallas no

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actually I was in a safe way

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I think a supermarket in LA I was about

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five years old I remember when we walked

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in there was a horrible smell in the

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parking lot I just kind of dismissed it

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out of my nose we were inside shopping

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and the announcement came over the

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public address system in the store that

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the President had been shot I remember

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thinking wow everybody's really freaking

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out about this and and I I remember I

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was so bummed my little brother and I

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were so bummed because for the next

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three days there were no cartoons on TV

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it was all these somber funeral

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processions and people talking and and

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it just wasn't any fun I wonder I wanted

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to watch cartoons I you know hey look

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people died you know

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that was my attitude well anyway when we

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left the Safeway

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the cops were crow barring a trunk open

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and there was some like dead body in a

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parking lot another paranormal event I

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guess I oh boy really is memories really

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strong vivid memories everyone who was

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that day remembers I remember going to

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the post office of my bicycle okay going

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to the post office coming back to the

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house and I noticed the most of us

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a somber kind of mood I said nothing

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came back to the house my father came

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back from work he said that you know the

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president was shot and I hadn't been

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listening to the radio I had been

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watching TV so I didn't know so I then

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turned on the TV as you say three days

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three days nothing on TV but the Kennedy

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assassination but it's like we entered a

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second reality you know we had this

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reality of innocence that existed before

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1963 and then we had the second reality

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that began with the Kennedy

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assassination and I remember in the very

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early days I started working in radio I

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was working for a commercial station in

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Minnesota as a matter of fact the home

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state of Jesse Ventura and this was the

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year that Robert Kennedy was shot and I

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heard this on the radio from the large

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Clear Channel Radio Station WCCO in

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Minneapolis so I called our station

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manager woke him up and I said I don't

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want to tell you what happened man but

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Robert Kennedy was shot so he ran to the

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studio and we turned on the station it

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was a day timer so about an hour before

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dawn we get on the air at sundown we go

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off the air we came on the air and

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within five minutes he's on there doing

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a commentary that's what I remember well

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yeah those were pivotal events I think

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in American history I really in the end

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the JFK junior crash I think is another

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example of a potential paranormal event

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there's so much controversy surrounding

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that event these little events are

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really important I think it is strange

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when these things happen you don't just

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say well some crazed guy kills the

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president or some crazed guy kills a man

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who would be president you think of the

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possibility that he acted in concert

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with someone else

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it can't be simple it can't be just one

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lone lunatic we think of the person who

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killed John Lennon has one lone lunatic

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the person who tried to do in President

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Reagan is one crazy guy but these other

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incidents it's got to be

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Spira see well I don't know the whole

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Hinkley thing was pretty inky in my book

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Oh

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oh yeah yeah look at him Klee senior and

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and the oil wells that he sold to Bush

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to the Bush family and I think 30 empty

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oil wells that he got quite a few

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million dollars for I mean I don't want

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to get going hunting this cuz I'm just

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gonna get myself in trouble but if you

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do your research you'll find that there

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are connecting points all over the place

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with certain families and political

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power structures in this country that

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are always lurking about on the

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periphery around these types of uh you

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know just the heinous events as if

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they're pulling some strings that would

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be the knee-jerk assumption and we don't

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want to add jerk our knees because it

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gets very painful when you get old yeah

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especially my knees well you do all this

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climbing and all this hiking and all

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this exploratory investigation on the

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scene

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you take the tours of the Grand Canyon

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actually you give the tours so is that

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something you just do in a motor vehicle

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or do you actually have to do climbing

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well it depends on who I'm taking along

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generally I try to keep it as low impact

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as possible

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and this upcoming trip I'm doing up to

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the San Luis Valley though it's gonna

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involve some some strenuous activity but

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we'll have to see we're bringing a lot

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of gear up we have a new toy that's just

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you got the prototype from MIT that

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we're gonna be looking at gravitons and

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luan

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possibilities of detecting changes I'm

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not sure exactly about the science I'm

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gonna be up to speed before I am joined

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by a fellow investigator to go up there

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and hit some very specific locations

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that I've always felt had special

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significance so well we'll have to do a

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show on that once rosemary and I get

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back if you get back Oh we'll be back

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you think you're trying to I I love

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trains it's been so long since I've

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taken a train anywhere there are no

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trains here they do have light rail in

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the Phoenix area but it's almost like

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above ground Frolik are not the same

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thing not quite you know but uses not

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the same thing this week we bring back

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for an encore appearance Micah Hanks

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he's a paranormal investigator has his

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own radio show by the way

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and in the talking points he sent me he

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has some new research into the Mothman

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episode right yes I can't wait to talk

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about that micah is one of those one of

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the few younger generation investigators

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who I sincerely admire and the graylien

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report his website is a must-read he's

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very good writer in a very accomplished

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bluegrass musician has a great band it's

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gonna be a real pleasure to have Micah

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back on the show but no bluegrass music

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Micah Hanks coming up next on the para

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346
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349
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350
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351
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354
00:14:39,770 --> 00:14:38,040
at forum dot the para cast calm on the

355
00:14:41,630 --> 00:14:39,780
para cast with Jean Steinberg and our

356
00:14:43,220 --> 00:14:41,640
co-host Chris O'Brien we welcome back

357
00:14:45,860 --> 00:14:43,230
someone who was on the show a year two

358
00:14:47,930 --> 00:14:45,870
back and he's incredibly talented as a

359
00:14:49,670 --> 00:14:47,940
musician he's also a paranormal

360
00:14:52,190 --> 00:14:49,680
investigator has a publication called

361
00:14:55,190 --> 00:14:52,200
graylien report has involved in radio

362
00:14:57,860 --> 00:14:55,200
and all that stuff but Micah Hanks we

363
00:15:00,710 --> 00:14:57,870
got a note from you here about new

364
00:15:03,080 --> 00:15:00,720
research into Mothman now I kind of

365
00:15:05,390 --> 00:15:03,090
thought that was you know the issue the

366
00:15:07,520 --> 00:15:05,400
Silver Bridge and all that stuff it

367
00:15:10,610 --> 00:15:07,530
already happened we had the movie there

368
00:15:13,130 --> 00:15:10,620
with of course Richard Gere playing a

369
00:15:16,760 --> 00:15:13,140
compendium of characters including John

370
00:15:20,900 --> 00:15:16,770
keel whom he called Klein right okay so

371
00:15:22,670 --> 00:15:20,910
what led you to go back into Mothman

372
00:15:24,800 --> 00:15:22,680
what's going on here yes back into a

373
00:15:26,780 --> 00:15:24,810
foray into the Mothman world you know

374
00:15:28,100 --> 00:15:26,790
first of all I kind of say that the

375
00:15:30,920 --> 00:15:28,110
Mothman has been something that has

376
00:15:32,720 --> 00:15:30,930
fascinated me for more than a decade if

377
00:15:34,280 --> 00:15:32,730
not who gosh in in my entire life since

378
00:15:36,290 --> 00:15:34,290
I was old enough to be conscious of

379
00:15:37,940 --> 00:15:36,300
there being things that were well maybe

380
00:15:41,150 --> 00:15:37,950
beyond what we typically call conscious

381
00:15:43,130 --> 00:15:41,160
the Mothman of course is this winged

382
00:15:44,330 --> 00:15:43,140
some people call it a cryptozoological

383
00:15:45,980 --> 00:15:44,340
things some people call it

384
00:15:47,570 --> 00:15:45,990
interdimensional which is I think that I

385
00:15:49,550 --> 00:15:47,580
think that was the term that John keel

386
00:15:51,080 --> 00:15:49,560
actually preferred who authored the book

387
00:15:52,610 --> 00:15:51,090
the Mothman Prophecies that was the

388
00:15:54,200 --> 00:15:52,620
impetus for that film you mentioned

389
00:15:55,430 --> 00:15:54,210
there I loved the film by the way had to

390
00:15:57,020 --> 00:15:55,440
go see that one in the theaters when it

391
00:15:58,190 --> 00:15:57,030
came out but the interesting thing about

392
00:16:00,500 --> 00:15:58,200
Mothman

393
00:16:01,730 --> 00:16:00,510
to me is that it is really this kind of

394
00:16:04,520 --> 00:16:01,740
a singular thing you know you have

395
00:16:06,920 --> 00:16:04,530
reports of Bigfoot here in the United

396
00:16:09,770 --> 00:16:06,930
States and the olmos or the you know the

397
00:16:11,510 --> 00:16:09,780
Yeti and things like that a year in yah

398
00:16:12,920 --> 00:16:11,520
we all around the the other parts of the

399
00:16:14,810 --> 00:16:12,930
world in other words there are

400
00:16:16,880 --> 00:16:14,820
anthropomorphic looking ape creatures

401
00:16:18,230 --> 00:16:16,890
seen virtually everywhere throughout the

402
00:16:19,520 --> 00:16:18,240
world this lends people to think that

403
00:16:20,390 --> 00:16:19,530
maybe we're looking at either some sort

404
00:16:22,160 --> 00:16:20,400
of a

405
00:16:24,680 --> 00:16:22,170
psychological or maybe even in a Jungian

406
00:16:26,720 --> 00:16:24,690
psychological sense archetypal sort of

407
00:16:28,430 --> 00:16:26,730
phenomenon or that there are truly

408
00:16:29,870 --> 00:16:28,440
anthropomorphic ape creatures that are

409
00:16:31,760 --> 00:16:29,880
just similar enough to humans that have

410
00:16:33,770 --> 00:16:31,770
existed on the fringes of society and

411
00:16:35,090 --> 00:16:33,780
live dispersed throughout parts of the

412
00:16:38,030 --> 00:16:35,100
world whereas the Mothman creature

413
00:16:39,590 --> 00:16:38,040
despite a lot of popular reports that

414
00:16:40,460 --> 00:16:39,600
the claim that these things are seeing

415
00:16:42,110 --> 00:16:40,470
all around the world at the time

416
00:16:44,030 --> 00:16:42,120
disasters occur a lot of that is really

417
00:16:46,280 --> 00:16:44,040
kind of you know folklore that has come

418
00:16:48,500 --> 00:16:46,290
together as a result of the disaster the

419
00:16:50,180 --> 00:16:48,510
Silver Bridge disaster being directly

420
00:16:51,590 --> 00:16:50,190
associated with the signings of the

421
00:16:53,420 --> 00:16:51,600
creature around Point Pleasant in the

422
00:16:55,730 --> 00:16:53,430
late 1960s Point Pleasant West Virginia

423
00:16:57,830 --> 00:16:55,740
so I've been fascinated by Mothman for a

424
00:16:59,300 --> 00:16:57,840
long time because this creature seems to

425
00:17:00,920 --> 00:16:59,310
represent almost a singular

426
00:17:03,710 --> 00:17:00,930
manifestation of something that at least

427
00:17:05,510 --> 00:17:03,720
vaguely Rippa appeared humanoid it had

428
00:17:07,220 --> 00:17:05,520
wings which according to John keel and

429
00:17:09,230 --> 00:17:07,230
others were described as being you know

430
00:17:10,550 --> 00:17:09,240
pretty small comparative to the size of

431
00:17:12,140 --> 00:17:10,560
the body the thing was described as

432
00:17:14,660 --> 00:17:12,150
being between maybe five-and-a-half to

433
00:17:16,430 --> 00:17:14,670
six and maybe seven feet tall and yet

434
00:17:17,900 --> 00:17:16,440
the wingspan was only ten feet and this

435
00:17:19,250 --> 00:17:17,910
thing was seen flying in a number of

436
00:17:20,180 --> 00:17:19,260
instances so how in the world is

437
00:17:22,820 --> 00:17:20,190
something with the ten-foot wingspan

438
00:17:24,560 --> 00:17:22,830
carry a human-like body that's seven

439
00:17:26,060 --> 00:17:24,570
feet tall so you know you begin to look

440
00:17:27,079 --> 00:17:26,070
at all of the a lot of these reports and

441
00:17:29,510 --> 00:17:27,089
say you know that there are things that

442
00:17:30,830 --> 00:17:29,520
maybe don't add up and that initially

443
00:17:32,000 --> 00:17:30,840
had always kind of stuck with me and I

444
00:17:33,260 --> 00:17:32,010
thought maybe this is something that

445
00:17:35,690 --> 00:17:33,270
literally is able to defy gravity

446
00:17:38,060 --> 00:17:35,700
something interdimensional something

447
00:17:39,980 --> 00:17:38,070
that is able to propel itself through

448
00:17:41,870 --> 00:17:39,990
the air in a very non-conventional way

449
00:17:43,490 --> 00:17:41,880
but looking back at a lot of the early

450
00:17:46,250 --> 00:17:43,500
reports you'll notice that even the

451
00:17:47,510 --> 00:17:46,260
early witness witnesses the the two

452
00:17:48,590 --> 00:17:47,520
couples that were gravel driving in a

453
00:17:50,660 --> 00:17:48,600
car Scarberry

454
00:17:52,430 --> 00:17:50,670
and the mahlet they had described I

455
00:17:54,710 --> 00:17:52,440
think it appeared in a newspaper called

456
00:17:56,630 --> 00:17:54,720
the the Pacific stars-and-stripes that

457
00:17:59,450 --> 00:17:56,640
uh that the creature had to quote been a

458
00:18:00,980 --> 00:17:59,460
very awkward runner and this description

459
00:18:03,080 --> 00:18:00,990
of it running was mentioned in

460
00:18:05,240 --> 00:18:03,090
conjunction with the thing chasing their

461
00:18:07,310 --> 00:18:05,250
car at speeds almost exceeding 100 miles

462
00:18:08,900 --> 00:18:07,320
per hour now granted later on those

463
00:18:10,400 --> 00:18:08,910
witnesses would also say that they did

464
00:18:12,620 --> 00:18:10,410
in fact see the thing flying behind

465
00:18:13,880 --> 00:18:12,630
their vehicle the subsequent encounter

466
00:18:15,830 --> 00:18:13,890
that occurred the next night in which

467
00:18:18,080 --> 00:18:15,840
you know one of the witnesses was a

468
00:18:19,670 --> 00:18:18,090
woman carrying her newborn baby Tina she

469
00:18:21,170 --> 00:18:19,680
actually dropped the baby because as

470
00:18:23,870 --> 00:18:21,180
they pulled up at a friend's house near

471
00:18:25,850 --> 00:18:23,880
the the very infamous abandoned TNT

472
00:18:27,530 --> 00:18:25,860
Factory the creature was seen apparently

473
00:18:29,150 --> 00:18:27,540
had been lying on the ground it gets up

474
00:18:30,620 --> 00:18:29,160
its butt locomotion was described as

475
00:18:32,360 --> 00:18:30,630
shuffling and it gets up and starts

476
00:18:33,500 --> 00:18:32,370
walking away and they're so terrified

477
00:18:35,330 --> 00:18:33,510
that the mother drops

478
00:18:36,650 --> 00:18:35,340
little baby Tina she's terrified they

479
00:18:38,000 --> 00:18:36,660
get her up she gets the baby they get

480
00:18:39,800 --> 00:18:38,010
inside the friend's house and the thing

481
00:18:40,910 --> 00:18:39,810
ambles up onto the back porch and stares

482
00:18:43,040 --> 00:18:40,920
in the windows at him with these

483
00:18:44,750 --> 00:18:43,050
infamous glowing red eyes in that

484
00:18:46,130 --> 00:18:44,760
circumstance to my knowledge that

485
00:18:47,750 --> 00:18:46,140
creature was never described as having

486
00:18:49,670 --> 00:18:47,760
flown and in a number of the other

487
00:18:51,590 --> 00:18:49,680
instances it was never described as

488
00:18:53,780 --> 00:18:51,600
having flown so rather than to say that

489
00:18:55,370 --> 00:18:53,790
Mothman was indeed a wingless creature

490
00:18:57,050 --> 00:18:55,380
in the in the popular radio program

491
00:18:58,910 --> 00:18:57,060
coast-to-coast a I'm actually linked an

492
00:19:01,220 --> 00:18:58,920
article I wrote for mysterious universe

493
00:19:03,350 --> 00:19:01,230
to Australian website about this earlier

494
00:19:04,850 --> 00:19:03,360
this week rather than to say that truly

495
00:19:06,770 --> 00:19:04,860
the Mothman was a wingless creature what

496
00:19:08,300 --> 00:19:06,780
I proposed and this has actually come to

497
00:19:10,100 --> 00:19:08,310
find out digging a little deeper into

498
00:19:12,410 --> 00:19:10,110
the into the literature I'm not the

499
00:19:14,210 --> 00:19:12,420
first to propose this by any means but I

500
00:19:16,400 --> 00:19:14,220
began to think certainly that what we

501
00:19:18,020 --> 00:19:16,410
were seeing here were you know relative

502
00:19:20,750 --> 00:19:18,030
phenomenon in the sense that they were

503
00:19:22,010 --> 00:19:20,760
kind of occurring in the same area at

504
00:19:23,390 --> 00:19:22,020
Point Pleasant West Virginia but they

505
00:19:25,880 --> 00:19:23,400
may not have been the same phenomenon we

506
00:19:27,560 --> 00:19:25,890
had a creature that had wings that a few

507
00:19:30,110 --> 00:19:27,570
witnesses described and we had a number

508
00:19:32,690 --> 00:19:30,120
of reports of what John keel would have

509
00:19:34,730 --> 00:19:32,700
called an abominable swamp slob this was

510
00:19:36,980 --> 00:19:34,740
kind of his own description of a of a

511
00:19:39,050 --> 00:19:36,990
bigfoot-type creature and even John keel

512
00:19:41,510 --> 00:19:39,060
if you read I think it was first

513
00:19:43,700 --> 00:19:41,520
published as strange creatures from time

514
00:19:45,890 --> 00:19:43,710
and space later republished as the

515
00:19:47,870 --> 00:19:45,900
complete guide to mysterious beings in

516
00:19:49,850 --> 00:19:47,880
the 1990s if you read in books like that

517
00:19:51,590 --> 00:19:49,860
he even says it was obvious we were

518
00:19:53,960 --> 00:19:51,600
dealing with a minority of reports of

519
00:19:56,600 --> 00:19:53,970
some wing at being but that we had an

520
00:19:58,460 --> 00:19:56,610
abominable swamp slob that was present

521
00:20:00,080 --> 00:19:58,470
in the area as well so I think it's very

522
00:20:01,340 --> 00:20:00,090
clear that maybe there were a variety of

523
00:20:03,050 --> 00:20:01,350
things occurring around Point Pleasant

524
00:20:05,120 --> 00:20:03,060
not all of them were the conventional

525
00:20:06,410 --> 00:20:05,130
Mothman that we that we've taken to

526
00:20:08,540 --> 00:20:06,420
heart do you think that maybe

527
00:20:09,980 --> 00:20:08,550
researchers went in there and they kind

528
00:20:12,440 --> 00:20:09,990
of mixed them all together into one

529
00:20:14,780 --> 00:20:12,450
mish-mosh I think the important thing to

530
00:20:17,150 --> 00:20:14,790
address here is that that occurs very

531
00:20:18,920 --> 00:20:17,160
often in the study of for Tianna and the

532
00:20:20,750 --> 00:20:18,930
unexplained and you know and I'm just as

533
00:20:22,340 --> 00:20:20,760
guilty of that as anyone you know I hear

534
00:20:24,410 --> 00:20:22,350
about people talking about you know what

535
00:20:26,330 --> 00:20:24,420
if we take all this weird phenomenon and

536
00:20:28,130 --> 00:20:26,340
let's put it all together in a great big

537
00:20:29,990 --> 00:20:28,140
pot and stir it together and see what we

538
00:20:31,880 --> 00:20:30,000
get let's see how interrelated all this

539
00:20:34,550 --> 00:20:31,890
stuff really is and I hear and it may

540
00:20:36,380 --> 00:20:34,560
not always be wrong to follow that logic

541
00:20:37,970 --> 00:20:36,390
that you know will we hear about Bigfoot

542
00:20:39,920 --> 00:20:37,980
reports in conjunction with UFO

543
00:20:42,050 --> 00:20:39,930
sightings so maybe Bigfoot is an alien

544
00:20:43,550 --> 00:20:42,060
or we hear about UFO sightings in

545
00:20:45,020 --> 00:20:43,560
conjunction with you know the

546
00:20:47,440 --> 00:20:45,030
appearances of ghosts and haunted houses

547
00:20:48,700 --> 00:20:47,450
so maybe ghosts are also some sort of a

548
00:20:50,620 --> 00:20:48,710
you know interdimensional or

549
00:20:52,000 --> 00:20:50,630
extraterrestrial phenomenon in fact I

550
00:20:53,409 --> 00:20:52,010
wrote an article for fake magazine a few

551
00:20:56,110 --> 00:20:53,419
years ago about that it was called

552
00:20:58,240 --> 00:20:56,120
ghostly respecters new receptors new

553
00:20:59,710 --> 00:20:58,250
parallels between ghosts and UFOs but

554
00:21:01,629 --> 00:20:59,720
but the point is is that I don't think

555
00:21:03,879 --> 00:21:01,639
that it's always healthy - even if you

556
00:21:05,289 --> 00:21:03,889
want to draw you know distinct parallels

557
00:21:06,610 --> 00:21:05,299
between phenomenon you don't always want

558
00:21:08,470 --> 00:21:06,620
to say that they are necessarily

559
00:21:10,509 --> 00:21:08,480
interrelated the reason why is because

560
00:21:12,580 --> 00:21:10,519
if you say that for instance in Point

561
00:21:13,720 --> 00:21:12,590
Pleasant if a creature is being seen if

562
00:21:15,159 --> 00:21:13,730
you say that every one of those

563
00:21:17,230 --> 00:21:15,169
creatures because somebody saw a

564
00:21:18,789 --> 00:21:17,240
quote-unquote Mothman which we know

565
00:21:20,259 --> 00:21:18,799
actually from studying the literature it

566
00:21:22,029 --> 00:21:20,269
didn't resemble a moth at all that was a

567
00:21:24,610 --> 00:21:22,039
term that the press gave it back in the

568
00:21:27,700 --> 00:21:24,620
early days of the UFO mystery oh yeah

569
00:21:28,570 --> 00:21:27,710
fine Arnold said saucers skipping across

570
00:21:30,639 --> 00:21:28,580
water

571
00:21:33,370 --> 00:21:30,649
to describe the motion of what he saw

572
00:21:34,720 --> 00:21:33,380
which were what crescent-shaped oh it's

573
00:21:37,210 --> 00:21:34,730
flying saucers

574
00:21:38,320 --> 00:21:37,220
exactly uh of course you know regardless

575
00:21:41,019 --> 00:21:38,330
of the fact that we have flying

576
00:21:42,340 --> 00:21:41,029
cylinders flying orbs flying triangles

577
00:21:44,259 --> 00:21:42,350
every other kind of everything for the

578
00:21:46,240 --> 00:21:44,269
longest time any UFO was referred to

579
00:21:48,129 --> 00:21:46,250
even if they were just a glob of light

580
00:21:49,840 --> 00:21:48,139
they were referred to as saucers so

581
00:21:50,980 --> 00:21:49,850
again you know we have this well you

582
00:21:53,169 --> 00:21:50,990
know let's point that out first the

583
00:21:54,610 --> 00:21:53,179
press infers this quote-unquote Mothman

584
00:21:57,490 --> 00:21:54,620
creature because something with wings

585
00:21:59,710 --> 00:21:57,500
was seen there were a lot of reports of

586
00:22:01,299 --> 00:21:59,720
anomalous large birds in the Point

587
00:22:03,070 --> 00:22:01,309
Pleasant West Virginia area around the

588
00:22:04,960 --> 00:22:03,080
time of these sightings and then maybe

589
00:22:06,340 --> 00:22:04,970
we could say everything else was you

590
00:22:08,470 --> 00:22:06,350
know a terrestrial phenomenon something

591
00:22:09,909 --> 00:22:08,480
kind of like a Bigfoot it gets lumped in

592
00:22:11,649 --> 00:22:09,919
and I think what we learned from this is

593
00:22:12,820 --> 00:22:11,659
that you do have to be careful when you

594
00:22:14,649 --> 00:22:12,830
just say that you know we're gonna

595
00:22:16,210 --> 00:22:14,659
generalize and everything seen in this

596
00:22:18,159 --> 00:22:16,220
area because one thing might have had

597
00:22:20,110 --> 00:22:18,169
wings is a Mothman that may not be the

598
00:22:22,659 --> 00:22:20,120
case at all we want to reduce everything

599
00:22:24,340 --> 00:22:22,669
to sound bites we want to make

600
00:22:25,990 --> 00:22:24,350
everything as simple as possible to

601
00:22:28,600 --> 00:22:26,000
understand we want The Reader's Digest

602
00:22:31,360 --> 00:22:28,610
version that doesn't always work

603
00:22:32,980 --> 00:22:31,370
we have Micah Hanks his publication is

604
00:22:34,930 --> 00:22:32,990
called the graylien report and I have to

605
00:22:37,360 --> 00:22:34,940
ask him to explain to our listeners what

606
00:22:40,720 --> 00:22:37,370
is a grey alien and can i buy one can i

607
00:22:42,970 --> 00:22:40,730
watch one on TV can I take home an

608
00:22:46,450 --> 00:22:42,980
action figure a graylien action figure

609
00:22:50,440 --> 00:22:46,460
there's a idea for merchandising tell me

610
00:22:53,200 --> 00:22:50,450
about it okay co-host is Chris O'Brien

611
00:22:57,080 --> 00:22:53,210
I'm gene Steinberg you're in the para

612
00:23:02,710 --> 00:22:59,400
[Music]

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time America's number one source for

716
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independent talk radio for

717
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over a decade we are the gcn radio

718
00:27:19,730 --> 00:27:16,250
this is Jacques Vallee are you listening

719
00:27:28,040 --> 00:27:19,740
to the podcast the gold standard of

720
00:27:29,990 --> 00:27:28,050
Carnival radio we have Chris O'Brien as

721
00:27:32,810 --> 00:27:30,000
the co-host I'm Jean Steinberg you're in

722
00:27:35,690 --> 00:27:32,820
the para cast Micah Hank's joining us

723
00:27:37,610 --> 00:27:35,700
and before we go back to the mystery

724
00:27:40,490 --> 00:27:37,620
surrounding Mothman and maybe some of

725
00:27:42,830 --> 00:27:40,500
the new revelations about the enigma to

726
00:27:43,940 --> 00:27:42,840
increase our understanding greatly and

727
00:27:45,920 --> 00:27:43,950
what is a graylien

728
00:27:47,180 --> 00:27:45,930
a good question that's that's the

729
00:27:49,670 --> 00:27:47,190
million dollar question right there a

730
00:27:51,710 --> 00:27:49,680
graylien is actually in truth a

731
00:27:53,690 --> 00:27:51,720
portmanteau I created you know we hear

732
00:27:55,070 --> 00:27:53,700
about gray aliens and what's really

733
00:27:58,190 --> 00:27:55,080
funny is if you look at the graylien

734
00:28:00,830 --> 00:27:58,200
report.com we have you know a green

735
00:28:03,560 --> 00:28:00,840
alien so it's not a truly an alien gray

736
00:28:05,990 --> 00:28:03,570
in terms of in terms of color and

737
00:28:07,730 --> 00:28:06,000
accuracy so it's a Greely in report but

738
00:28:09,590 --> 00:28:07,740
Greely and doesn't sound as good as

739
00:28:11,030 --> 00:28:09,600
graylien exactly yeah technically you'd

740
00:28:13,190 --> 00:28:11,040
be a Greely and wouldn't he but you know

741
00:28:16,250 --> 00:28:13,200
the idea is that you have these reports

742
00:28:17,870 --> 00:28:16,260
of gray aliens and so I and what's funny

743
00:28:19,610 --> 00:28:17,880
is when I created the word gray alien

744
00:28:21,050 --> 00:28:19,620
there are so many folks who said gray

745
00:28:23,660 --> 00:28:21,060
alien gray alien they can't pronounce

746
00:28:25,310 --> 00:28:23,670
grey alien but yes it is graylien report

747
00:28:27,170 --> 00:28:25,320
you know you he's a character he's a

748
00:28:29,030 --> 00:28:27,180
mascot of sorts I mean I don't just talk

749
00:28:30,590 --> 00:28:29,040
about aliens and UFOs and things at the

750
00:28:32,630 --> 00:28:30,600
website as a matter of fact if anything

751
00:28:34,370 --> 00:28:32,640
if I went down in history is being known

752
00:28:37,520 --> 00:28:34,380
is anything I would like to be

753
00:28:39,500 --> 00:28:37,530
remembered as a probably a folklorist

754
00:28:40,790 --> 00:28:39,510
because you know so much of the the

755
00:28:43,790 --> 00:28:40,800
uncanny and the unexplained in the

756
00:28:46,520 --> 00:28:43,800
strange that we deal with in these

757
00:28:49,580 --> 00:28:46,530
reports and this this brand of research

758
00:28:51,140 --> 00:28:49,590
it crosses cultural parallels things

759
00:28:53,450 --> 00:28:51,150
we've dealt with for you know hundreds

760
00:28:56,210 --> 00:28:53,460
of thousands of years you know literally

761
00:28:58,130 --> 00:28:56,220
that exceed our time here on this planet

762
00:28:59,720 --> 00:28:58,140
you know we can look at very point you

763
00:29:01,160 --> 00:28:59,730
know what in case you know case studies

764
00:29:02,870 --> 00:29:01,170
of things that occur right here right

765
00:29:05,720 --> 00:29:02,880
now we can look at the kind of the

766
00:29:07,850 --> 00:29:05,730
longer the longer progression of thought

767
00:29:09,620 --> 00:29:07,860
and folklore and and mysterious

768
00:29:10,940 --> 00:29:09,630
happenings and things like that strange

769
00:29:14,180 --> 00:29:10,950
beings and creatures throughout history

770
00:29:16,370 --> 00:29:14,190
so you know not not to infer when I say

771
00:29:17,990 --> 00:29:16,380
folklore that these things don't exist

772
00:29:19,580 --> 00:29:18,000
but I think Billy are looking at the

773
00:29:21,440 --> 00:29:19,590
accumulation of studies of the strange

774
00:29:23,150 --> 00:29:21,450
you know throughout history I like that

775
00:29:24,920 --> 00:29:23,160
expression and and you know even joint

776
00:29:27,380 --> 00:29:24,930
valet and others have used that too

777
00:29:30,410 --> 00:29:27,390
alright let's go back to Mothman so

778
00:29:32,630 --> 00:29:30,420
Mothman is maschmann mouth women and all

779
00:29:36,260 --> 00:29:32,640
sorts of strange creatures that were put

780
00:29:38,300 --> 00:29:36,270
into one bag yeah quite possibly you

781
00:29:40,280 --> 00:29:38,310
know we have these again you know these

782
00:29:43,190 --> 00:29:40,290
these reports of what very well may have

783
00:29:44,590 --> 00:29:43,200
been you know a terrestrial you know

784
00:29:46,490 --> 00:29:44,600
rather you know a ground-based

785
00:29:47,870 --> 00:29:46,500
cryptozoological creature something

786
00:29:49,910 --> 00:29:47,880
along the lines of a Bigfoot or

787
00:29:52,190 --> 00:29:49,920
Sasquatch and I have to actually jump in

788
00:29:53,690 --> 00:29:52,200
here and say real quick Chris certainly

789
00:29:55,280 --> 00:29:53,700
would know a good bit about this because

790
00:29:56,750 --> 00:29:55,290
this has to be none other than Chris

791
00:29:59,120 --> 00:29:56,760
O'Brien who authored stalking the

792
00:30:00,920 --> 00:29:59,130
tricksters am I correct yeah that's

793
00:30:02,420 --> 00:30:00,930
right Chris yeah so I've known you for

794
00:30:05,090 --> 00:30:02,430
years and I was just reading your book

795
00:30:07,460 --> 00:30:05,100
the other day and enjoying the many

796
00:30:10,070 --> 00:30:07,470
parallels that look at this sort of

797
00:30:11,900 --> 00:30:10,080
stuff in that book as well and and we

798
00:30:13,460 --> 00:30:11,910
see that you know again these sorts of

799
00:30:15,230 --> 00:30:13,470
creatures Bigfoot if you read Chris's

800
00:30:16,280 --> 00:30:15,240
book or if you study you know what I put

801
00:30:17,750 --> 00:30:16,290
up on the Creighton report in other

802
00:30:18,650 --> 00:30:17,760
places you know these things are seen

803
00:30:21,200 --> 00:30:18,660
all over the place

804
00:30:22,700 --> 00:30:21,210
I don't know exactly why that is are we

805
00:30:24,050 --> 00:30:22,710
dealing with a physical phenomenon when

806
00:30:29,600 --> 00:30:24,060
I'm talking about a bigfoot-type

807
00:30:31,610 --> 00:30:29,610
creature or a an abominable swamp slob a

808
00:30:33,710 --> 00:30:31,620
swamp booger yeah you know I mean all

809
00:30:35,330 --> 00:30:33,720
these things skunk Apes we have

810
00:30:37,400 --> 00:30:35,340
different regional names for these

811
00:30:39,950 --> 00:30:37,410
creatures is it something that is

812
00:30:41,540 --> 00:30:39,960
literally representative of physical

813
00:30:43,190 --> 00:30:41,550
creatures seen throughout the United

814
00:30:46,700 --> 00:30:43,200
States and frankly you know throughout

815
00:30:48,170 --> 00:30:46,710
you know the entire populated world you

816
00:30:50,690 --> 00:30:48,180
know I've wondered sometimes if it is

817
00:30:52,430 --> 00:30:50,700
indeed entirely that and I think that

818
00:30:55,760 --> 00:30:52,440
the reason why because the thing is that

819
00:30:57,530 --> 00:30:55,770
there is despite what many cynics and

820
00:30:59,120 --> 00:30:57,540
skeptics would tell you there is a

821
00:31:01,190 --> 00:30:59,130
remarkable amount of physical evidence

822
00:31:04,070 --> 00:31:01,200
that supports the notion that something

823
00:31:06,050 --> 00:31:04,080
is occurring you know and and you know I

824
00:31:07,490 --> 00:31:06,060
think that yeah you can't fault folks

825
00:31:09,290 --> 00:31:07,500
like Jeffrey Meldrum and some of the

826
00:31:12,050 --> 00:31:09,300
better-known cryptozoologist in academia

827
00:31:13,640 --> 00:31:12,060
you know who go after these things for

828
00:31:16,190 --> 00:31:13,650
anything perhaps but being passionate

829
00:31:18,320 --> 00:31:16,200
about what they go after and they're and

830
00:31:19,160 --> 00:31:18,330
they're certainly you know enlivened by

831
00:31:20,930 --> 00:31:19,170
the thought that there might be

832
00:31:22,490 --> 00:31:20,940
something out there and what happens to

833
00:31:24,470 --> 00:31:22,500
them they're criticized you know and the

834
00:31:26,480 --> 00:31:24,480
rest of academia criticizes them and

835
00:31:27,710 --> 00:31:26,490
says you know you're crazy you know

836
00:31:29,030 --> 00:31:27,720
you're you're you're talking about fairy

837
00:31:30,200 --> 00:31:29,040
tales here and you're trying to treat it

838
00:31:31,940 --> 00:31:30,210
like it's something real you're going to

839
00:31:34,100 --> 00:31:31,950
lose your job you're risking reputation

840
00:31:35,660 --> 00:31:34,110
all these things nonetheless these

841
00:31:38,900 --> 00:31:35,670
things are seen all over the place maybe

842
00:31:40,640 --> 00:31:38,910
then Point Pleasant was no different

843
00:31:42,710 --> 00:31:40,650
since we have these reports of the Ohio

844
00:31:44,030 --> 00:31:42,720
grassman and things like that another

845
00:31:46,010 --> 00:31:44,040
regional term for a bigfoot-type

846
00:31:48,110 --> 00:31:46,020
creature in the area it seems very

847
00:31:49,850 --> 00:31:48,120
likely based on the witness descriptions

848
00:31:51,500 --> 00:31:49,860
that you know that there was some sort

849
00:31:53,180 --> 00:31:51,510
of a bipedal maybe even ape-like

850
00:31:55,100 --> 00:31:53,190
creature that was being seen in the area

851
00:31:56,810 --> 00:31:55,110
around the time of Mothman sightings let

852
00:31:58,970 --> 00:31:56,820
me ask you though is it possible that

853
00:32:00,980 --> 00:31:58,980
the disaster the Silver Bridge disaster

854
00:32:03,430 --> 00:32:00,990
is what brings so much attention to

855
00:32:06,320 --> 00:32:03,440
Mothman otherwise it'd just be another

856
00:32:08,210 --> 00:32:06,330
anomalous thing there's a good point to

857
00:32:09,730 --> 00:32:08,220
be made there first of all I don't think

858
00:32:12,200 --> 00:32:09,740
that the Silver Bridge collapse was

859
00:32:14,480 --> 00:32:12,210
directly in terms of anything other than

860
00:32:16,160 --> 00:32:14,490
maybe just you know serendipitous or

861
00:32:18,169 --> 00:32:16,170
synchronistic that you know a disaster

862
00:32:21,320 --> 00:32:18,179
and frankly not just a disaster one of

863
00:32:22,460 --> 00:32:21,330
the single greatest just what would you

864
00:32:24,020 --> 00:32:22,470
call I guess it was one of the single

865
00:32:25,880 --> 00:32:24,030
greatest accidents in American

866
00:32:27,410 --> 00:32:25,890
infrastructure that occurred during the

867
00:32:28,970 --> 00:32:27,420
20th century I mean that the collapse of

868
00:32:30,799 --> 00:32:28,980
the Silver Bridge was singular in the

869
00:32:32,510 --> 00:32:30,809
sense that it caused us to really look

870
00:32:33,950 --> 00:32:32,520
at infrastructure you know bridges

871
00:32:35,870 --> 00:32:33,960
buildings and things and we had to say

872
00:32:38,690 --> 00:32:35,880
listen you know we can't have this kind

873
00:32:40,880 --> 00:32:38,700
of thing occurring again and I have

874
00:32:43,730 --> 00:32:40,890
friends from the Marietta Ohio and Point

875
00:32:45,169 --> 00:32:43,740
Pleasant West Virginia gallipoli areas

876
00:32:47,480 --> 00:32:45,179
there those towns and everything they

877
00:32:48,590 --> 00:32:47,490
remember when that actually occurred and

878
00:32:50,150 --> 00:32:48,600
they said that it was just a dark

879
00:32:51,890 --> 00:32:50,160
Christmas for everyone it was terrible

880
00:32:53,540 --> 00:32:51,900
so naturally if there are reports of

881
00:32:55,790 --> 00:32:53,550
some sort of a mysterious being or a

882
00:32:58,610 --> 00:32:55,800
creature being seen in that area people

883
00:33:00,230 --> 00:32:58,620
are going to infer as John keel did that

884
00:33:03,049 --> 00:33:00,240
something you know had happened but

885
00:33:04,790 --> 00:33:03,059
maybe the creatures presence was was

886
00:33:06,560 --> 00:33:04,800
kind of an omen it was indicative of

887
00:33:09,320 --> 00:33:06,570
something terrible to come but

888
00:33:10,820 --> 00:33:09,330
personally I don't know that you know

889
00:33:12,830 --> 00:33:10,830
aside from the fact that hey something

890
00:33:14,930 --> 00:33:12,840
was seen and then a disaster occurred

891
00:33:16,220 --> 00:33:14,940
you know I don't know that if we could

892
00:33:18,049 --> 00:33:16,230
look at it and Pyrrhic Lee and say well

893
00:33:19,549 --> 00:33:18,059
yes obviously the creature was

894
00:33:21,770 --> 00:33:19,559
responsible for that and frankly I think

895
00:33:23,240 --> 00:33:21,780
the Mothman has gotten a bad rap as a

896
00:33:25,669 --> 00:33:23,250
result of that I think he's been blamed

897
00:33:27,740 --> 00:33:25,679
with something that he/she/it whatever

898
00:33:29,180 --> 00:33:27,750
it was if there ever was one may not

899
00:33:31,430 --> 00:33:29,190
have had anything to do with that but it

900
00:33:33,590 --> 00:33:31,440
certainly it has certainly kind of kept

901
00:33:37,400 --> 00:33:33,600
it on the forty and record as an

902
00:33:39,710 --> 00:33:37,410
exemplary example of what I call a 40 in

903
00:33:41,780 --> 00:33:39,720
folk devil you know and if you look

904
00:33:44,060 --> 00:33:41,790
throughout history and in instances

905
00:33:46,550 --> 00:33:44,070
where reports of strange creatures are

906
00:33:48,440 --> 00:33:46,560
reported many times people associate

907
00:33:50,090 --> 00:33:48,450
them with bad luck whether it be you

908
00:33:51,620 --> 00:33:50,100
know Jason Offit talking about

909
00:33:53,210 --> 00:33:51,630
black-eyed children

910
00:33:55,370 --> 00:33:53,220
if you hear about what's called walking

911
00:33:56,240 --> 00:33:55,380
Sam this is very interesting this one

912
00:33:57,770 --> 00:33:56,250
walking Sam

913
00:33:59,930 --> 00:33:57,780
according to cryptozoologist many

914
00:34:02,090 --> 00:33:59,940
referred to as kind of a colloquial term

915
00:34:04,659 --> 00:34:02,100
for Bigfoot in the American Southwest

916
00:34:07,760 --> 00:34:04,669
among some of the Native American tribes

917
00:34:10,460 --> 00:34:07,770
walking Sam is to the contrary described

918
00:34:12,470 --> 00:34:10,470
as being you know often clothed wearing

919
00:34:13,580 --> 00:34:12,480
a stovepipe hat and being between 12 and

920
00:34:15,290 --> 00:34:13,590
15 feet tall

921
00:34:17,149 --> 00:34:15,300
he appears in windows at night kind of

922
00:34:19,460 --> 00:34:17,159
like the mad gasser of a was was it

923
00:34:21,619 --> 00:34:19,470
Mattoon I think we also can associate

924
00:34:22,970 --> 00:34:21,629
that with a Spring Heeled Jack and some

925
00:34:24,379 --> 00:34:22,980
of these characters and things like that

926
00:34:26,780 --> 00:34:24,389
you know these creeps that peer in

927
00:34:28,430 --> 00:34:26,790
windows this walking Sam entity is much

928
00:34:29,960 --> 00:34:28,440
the same sort of thing and the native

929
00:34:33,109 --> 00:34:29,970
traditions hold that when this creature

930
00:34:35,119 --> 00:34:33,119
where this being appears he appears in

931
00:34:36,530 --> 00:34:35,129
conjunction with teen suicides and

932
00:34:39,109 --> 00:34:36,540
things like that so a lot of the time

933
00:34:41,090 --> 00:34:39,119
for tea and creatures monsters strange

934
00:34:42,440 --> 00:34:41,100
beings are associated with bad luck but

935
00:34:44,480 --> 00:34:42,450
does that necessarily mean that they

936
00:34:45,830 --> 00:34:44,490
actually cause disasters I don't know

937
00:34:47,629 --> 00:34:45,840
that we have the evidence to support

938
00:34:49,460 --> 00:34:47,639
that you haven't wondered though in some

939
00:34:51,139 --> 00:34:49,470
cases maybe it is teenagers who are just

940
00:34:53,450 --> 00:34:51,149
playing pranks peering and windows

941
00:34:55,430 --> 00:34:53,460
wearing masks just care of their friends

942
00:34:57,020 --> 00:34:55,440
yeah absolutely of course that has to

943
00:34:58,670 --> 00:34:57,030
happen you know I mean when I was a kid

944
00:35:00,170 --> 00:34:58,680
you know I used to you know my friends

945
00:35:02,420 --> 00:35:00,180
and I we dressed like goblins and run

946
00:35:04,370 --> 00:35:02,430
around the neighborhood in fact there's

947
00:35:06,109 --> 00:35:04,380
a funny story he still does it by the

948
00:35:08,810 --> 00:35:06,119
way I wanted man I dressed like a

949
00:35:11,660 --> 00:35:08,820
graylien now though guys you know but

950
00:35:14,540 --> 00:35:11,670
when I was when I was just getting

951
00:35:16,910 --> 00:35:14,550
started in in my paranormal research you

952
00:35:18,500 --> 00:35:16,920
know I am and I do believe I'm one of

953
00:35:21,560 --> 00:35:18,510
these people who is a proponent like

954
00:35:22,790 --> 00:35:21,570
Chris is or or Eugene but I think that

955
00:35:25,190 --> 00:35:22,800
you know you need to get out there and

956
00:35:27,170 --> 00:35:25,200
if you can be to some degree you should

957
00:35:29,330 --> 00:35:27,180
be involved in field research you know

958
00:35:31,730 --> 00:35:29,340
as opposed to just pouring through you

959
00:35:32,930 --> 00:35:31,740
know information and and and and and the

960
00:35:35,300 --> 00:35:32,940
like that's you know gathered in books

961
00:35:36,650 --> 00:35:35,310
and on the internet by the same token I

962
00:35:38,810 --> 00:35:36,660
think that people who are armchair

963
00:35:40,730 --> 00:35:38,820
researchers as they call them are given

964
00:35:42,140 --> 00:35:40,740
a bad rap because you have to be you

965
00:35:43,520 --> 00:35:42,150
have to have both the people who are out

966
00:35:45,320 --> 00:35:43,530
there who are digging through the field

967
00:35:47,090 --> 00:35:45,330
and cutting through the brush looking

968
00:35:48,830 --> 00:35:47,100
for evidence and also the people who are

969
00:35:50,960 --> 00:35:48,840
academics and who are willing to go and

970
00:35:53,450 --> 00:35:50,970
look through microfilm and look through

971
00:35:55,040 --> 00:35:53,460
books and you know internet archives you

972
00:35:58,190 --> 00:35:55,050
know spend late nights and university

973
00:36:00,740 --> 00:35:58,200
libraries like I do looking up you know

974
00:36:02,450 --> 00:36:00,750
you know ever hearts for teen mystery

975
00:36:04,660 --> 00:36:02,460
catalog or whatever or Jeri Clark's

976
00:36:07,599 --> 00:36:04,670
books on UFO catalogs and things

977
00:36:09,819 --> 00:36:07,609
I'm getting it here is that when I was

978
00:36:11,829 --> 00:36:09,829
younger before I began to take a more

979
00:36:13,480 --> 00:36:11,839
scholarly kind of you know and even a

980
00:36:15,220 --> 00:36:13,490
folkloric approaches I've said to this

981
00:36:16,390 --> 00:36:15,230
sort of study sure I wanted to go out

982
00:36:17,829 --> 00:36:16,400
there and I wanted to go ghost hunting

983
00:36:19,809 --> 00:36:17,839
and things like that and I always try to

984
00:36:22,180 --> 00:36:19,819
present myself well when I did so and

985
00:36:23,859 --> 00:36:22,190
there's a well-known ghost here in

986
00:36:25,240 --> 00:36:23,869
Asheville North Carolina where I live

987
00:36:27,700 --> 00:36:25,250
it's called the pink lady and she said

988
00:36:30,280 --> 00:36:27,710
to haunt the historic Grove Park Inn

989
00:36:32,319 --> 00:36:30,290
Resort and Spa which is if you've never

990
00:36:33,730 --> 00:36:32,329
been to Asheville and you do plan to

991
00:36:35,650 --> 00:36:33,740
visit try and stay at the Grove Park Inn

992
00:36:37,420 --> 00:36:35,660
it's a remarkable place and it's

993
00:36:38,770 --> 00:36:37,430
allegedly haunted by many ghosts but

994
00:36:40,750 --> 00:36:38,780
what I would give is no ghost is

995
00:36:43,799 --> 00:36:40,760
supposed to maxy ghost or a mini me as a

996
00:36:46,450 --> 00:36:43,809
ghost all right and to this in a moment

997
00:36:48,579 --> 00:36:46,460
Micah Hanks joining us Chris O'Brien's

998
00:36:50,480 --> 00:36:48,589
the co-host I'm gene Steinberg you're in

999
00:36:59,930 --> 00:36:50,490
the para cast

1000
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1001
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take LEC we get that question all the

1066
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time about the world's best garlic

1067
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1068
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1069
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1070
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1071
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1072
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1073
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1075
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1077
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1078
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one tablet of a lessee is equivalent to

1079
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40 garlic cloves it's effective against

1080
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1081
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1082
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1086
00:40:48,930 --> 00:40:46,930
for more information than to order a

1087
00:40:51,030 --> 00:40:48,940
lessee call eight seven seven eight

1088
00:40:53,010 --> 00:40:51,040
eight eight seven one two six or go to

1089
00:40:54,960 --> 00:40:53,020
garlic health products calm that's eight

1090
00:40:57,270 --> 00:40:54,970
seven seven eight eight eight seven one

1091
00:41:01,140 --> 00:40:57,280
two six or garlic health products calm

1092
00:41:03,750 --> 00:41:01,150
fight back with ally see are you tired

1093
00:41:06,359 --> 00:41:03,760
of searching for great talk radio the

1094
00:41:10,460 --> 00:41:06,369
more important search through no more

1095
00:41:30,870 --> 00:41:10,470
we are the gcn radio network

1096
00:41:35,950 --> 00:41:34,180
music from our guests Micah Hanks he is

1097
00:41:38,950 --> 00:41:35,960
publisher the graylien report writes

1098
00:41:41,410 --> 00:41:38,960
books does radio shows and carries on

1099
00:41:43,750 --> 00:41:41,420
about strange creatures of the day of

1100
00:41:44,799 --> 00:41:43,760
the night over the weekend during the

1101
00:41:46,539 --> 00:41:44,809
week and all that stuff

1102
00:41:48,690 --> 00:41:46,549
Chris please pick up on the questioning

1103
00:41:51,509 --> 00:41:48,700
Micah you were talking about a

1104
00:41:54,549 --> 00:41:51,519
particular spot they are in Nashville

1105
00:41:57,370 --> 00:41:54,559
wants you give us a description just a

1106
00:42:00,339 --> 00:41:57,380
brief history of of this aberration and

1107
00:42:01,960 --> 00:42:00,349
your experience I guess as a you know I

1108
00:42:03,549 --> 00:42:01,970
knew investigator was this one of your

1109
00:42:05,559 --> 00:42:03,559
first cases that you attempted to

1110
00:42:07,809 --> 00:42:05,569
investigate or yeah it certainly was

1111
00:42:09,339 --> 00:42:07,819
because it was available to me you know

1112
00:42:11,380 --> 00:42:09,349
I think that most people who begin this

1113
00:42:14,289 --> 00:42:11,390
kind of research start getting involved

1114
00:42:16,900 --> 00:42:14,299
in investigations of phenomenon that

1115
00:42:20,109 --> 00:42:16,910
that occurs in their general locale we

1116
00:42:22,089 --> 00:42:20,119
have a number of interesting legends

1117
00:42:23,470 --> 00:42:22,099
about ghosts seen in the area the first

1118
00:42:25,569 --> 00:42:23,480
of course and that's what I was talking

1119
00:42:27,339 --> 00:42:25,579
about before the last break was the pink

1120
00:42:28,990 --> 00:42:27,349
lady of the Grove Park Inn and and

1121
00:42:30,279 --> 00:42:29,000
actually to go back to something Jean

1122
00:42:32,529 --> 00:42:30,289
had asked about during the last segment

1123
00:42:34,210 --> 00:42:32,539
he'd asked you know if I thought that

1124
00:42:36,099 --> 00:42:34,220
reports of strange phenomenon sometimes

1125
00:42:38,200 --> 00:42:36,109
were you know maybe accountable in terms

1126
00:42:39,700 --> 00:42:38,210
of you know pranksters and teenagers

1127
00:42:41,559 --> 00:42:39,710
putting on masks and peering in windows

1128
00:42:43,089 --> 00:42:41,569
and things when I began my research at

1129
00:42:46,960 --> 00:42:43,099
Grove Park in years ago before I even

1130
00:42:48,220 --> 00:42:46,970
met my my good friend and a few people

1131
00:42:50,079 --> 00:42:48,230
do actually know this he's my fourth

1132
00:42:51,759 --> 00:42:50,089
cousin Joshua P Warren who also lives

1133
00:42:53,740 --> 00:42:51,769
here in Asheville Joshua probably is the

1134
00:42:55,240 --> 00:42:53,750
most prolific researcher to have studied

1135
00:42:58,210 --> 00:42:55,250
the pink lady but before I even met

1136
00:43:00,190 --> 00:42:58,220
Joshua and that case arguably actually

1137
00:43:02,529 --> 00:43:00,200
the very one the the study of that that

1138
00:43:03,549 --> 00:43:02,539
that manifestation at the Grove Park Inn

1139
00:43:05,410 --> 00:43:03,559
that was the one that probably brought

1140
00:43:08,380 --> 00:43:05,420
Joshua and I together and into one

1141
00:43:09,849 --> 00:43:08,390
another's a realm of knowledge and in

1142
00:43:11,650 --> 00:43:09,859
hints you know years and years of

1143
00:43:14,499 --> 00:43:11,660
working together studying this sort of

1144
00:43:15,579 --> 00:43:14,509
stuff off and on but Joshua had written

1145
00:43:17,349 --> 00:43:15,589
about it in a book called haunted

1146
00:43:18,490 --> 00:43:17,359
Asheville and so naturally I would go up

1147
00:43:19,809 --> 00:43:18,500
to Grove Park Inn and I would ask

1148
00:43:21,640 --> 00:43:19,819
questions I gathered a number of

1149
00:43:23,230 --> 00:43:21,650
fascinating stories over the years from

1150
00:43:25,720 --> 00:43:23,240
talking with people and I would always

1151
00:43:27,370 --> 00:43:25,730
wear a black suit you know a white shirt

1152
00:43:29,109 --> 00:43:27,380
and a black tie sometimes I'd also wear

1153
00:43:31,150 --> 00:43:29,119
an earpiece because when I would go

1154
00:43:32,109 --> 00:43:31,160
throughout the hotel I'd have I'd have

1155
00:43:33,759 --> 00:43:32,119
friends you know who'd have

1156
00:43:35,799 --> 00:43:33,769
walkie-talkies and things like that and

1157
00:43:37,150 --> 00:43:35,809
they'd be another part of the hotel but

1158
00:43:38,769 --> 00:43:37,160
we didn't want to be walking around and

1159
00:43:39,970 --> 00:43:38,779
being so obvious about the fact that we

1160
00:43:40,920 --> 00:43:39,980
had walkie-talkies and that we were

1161
00:43:42,660 --> 00:43:40,930
trying to kind of

1162
00:43:44,069 --> 00:43:42,670
triangulate our efforts in various parts

1163
00:43:45,930 --> 00:43:44,079
the building so you know I'd wear an

1164
00:43:47,309 --> 00:43:45,940
earpiece and of course thinking that I

1165
00:43:49,200 --> 00:43:47,319
wasn't going to be is I wasn't gonna

1166
00:43:50,280 --> 00:43:49,210
stand out like a sore thumb Here I am

1167
00:43:53,520 --> 00:43:50,290
and dressed like an MIB

1168
00:43:56,010 --> 00:43:53,530
when I met Joshua years later I was told

1169
00:43:58,470 --> 00:43:56,020
of reports where people had said that

1170
00:43:59,940 --> 00:43:58,480
they had seen Emma bees lurking around

1171
00:44:03,630 --> 00:43:59,950
the Grove Park and questioning people

1172
00:44:05,760 --> 00:44:03,640
about the ghosts yeah so so I was a 14

1173
00:44:09,839 --> 00:44:05,770
phenomenon all to myself and I didn't

1174
00:44:11,970 --> 00:44:09,849
even know it I got I got busted I was

1175
00:44:14,880 --> 00:44:11,980
flying around videotaping in a tomb in

1176
00:44:16,670 --> 00:44:14,890
dark purple helicopter and end up

1177
00:44:19,740 --> 00:44:16,680
actually being able to fly the thing

1178
00:44:21,240 --> 00:44:19,750
back to crest own little town where we

1179
00:44:23,870 --> 00:44:21,250
had you know where I live where were you

1180
00:44:26,069 --> 00:44:23,880
taking off from and you know he says oh

1181
00:44:27,359 --> 00:44:26,079
yeah you can go ahead and fly here just

1182
00:44:29,819 --> 00:44:27,369
don't touch the pedals go ahead have

1183
00:44:31,980 --> 00:44:29,829
some fun so I started swooping down and

1184
00:44:34,140 --> 00:44:31,990
bothering some cattle herds and the next

1185
00:44:35,880 --> 00:44:34,150
day I found out in an article in the

1186
00:44:38,430 --> 00:44:35,890
Rocky Mountain News that the sheriff and

1187
00:44:40,620 --> 00:44:38,440
a deputy were chasing across the valley

1188
00:44:44,609 --> 00:44:40,630
after this mysterious black helicopters

1189
00:44:46,980 --> 00:44:44,619
it was harassing cattle oh yeah I can

1190
00:44:48,359 --> 00:44:46,990
identify with you well that's the funny

1191
00:44:49,890 --> 00:44:48,369
thing is that when we put ourselves out

1192
00:44:51,870 --> 00:44:49,900
there we throw ourselves to the belly of

1193
00:44:54,299 --> 00:44:51,880
the whale so to speak a lot of the time

1194
00:44:55,950 --> 00:44:54,309
well you know you can end up blurring

1195
00:44:57,750 --> 00:44:55,960
the boundaries between you know what

1196
00:45:00,780 --> 00:44:57,760
you're studying and and of course you

1197
00:45:02,789 --> 00:45:00,790
know what's well you're perceived as in

1198
00:45:04,589 --> 00:45:02,799
relation to that phenomenon so but

1199
00:45:06,470 --> 00:45:04,599
getting back to the pink lady the story

1200
00:45:09,420 --> 00:45:06,480
is is very typical you know there was a

1201
00:45:11,430 --> 00:45:09,430
damsel who you know there are various

1202
00:45:12,900 --> 00:45:11,440
theories about her origin you know one

1203
00:45:15,390 --> 00:45:12,910
that I think she was a lady of the night

1204
00:45:18,150 --> 00:45:15,400
when that she was a mistress of the the

1205
00:45:20,250 --> 00:45:18,160
author F scott Fitzgerald who had stayed

1206
00:45:22,770 --> 00:45:20,260
and frequented frankly the Grove Park

1207
00:45:25,230 --> 00:45:22,780
Inn some actually say that the pink lady

1208
00:45:27,480 --> 00:45:25,240
was actually the the former wife of F

1209
00:45:29,460 --> 00:45:27,490
scott Fitzgerald Zelda Fitzgerald and

1210
00:45:32,520 --> 00:45:29,470
there are just a number of different

1211
00:45:33,809 --> 00:45:32,530
stories to that origin which again you

1212
00:45:35,730 --> 00:45:33,819
know I see that there's a folkloric

1213
00:45:37,410 --> 00:45:35,740
aspect here you know a story is woven

1214
00:45:38,880 --> 00:45:37,420
around this character to the point that

1215
00:45:40,440 --> 00:45:38,890
I'd begun to think that maybe there was

1216
00:45:42,210 --> 00:45:40,450
no ghost at all and that maybe it was a

1217
00:45:44,460 --> 00:45:42,220
colorful story that was kind of you know

1218
00:45:46,170 --> 00:45:44,470
perpetrated around the the property

1219
00:45:47,670 --> 00:45:46,180
maybe not with malicious intent or

1220
00:45:49,650 --> 00:45:47,680
intent just to try and capitalize on

1221
00:45:51,299 --> 00:45:49,660
there being a ghost but you know over

1222
00:45:51,730 --> 00:45:51,309
time people tell stories and things and

1223
00:45:54,010 --> 00:45:51,740
there was more

1224
00:45:56,170 --> 00:45:54,020
legend there was an effect based around

1225
00:45:58,060 --> 00:45:56,180
it and then one night one night I was up

1226
00:45:59,650 --> 00:45:58,070
there at the Grove Park Inn and I had a

1227
00:46:01,600 --> 00:45:59,660
couple of friends with me who had some

1228
00:46:04,359 --> 00:46:01,610
fantastic cameras we'd been going around

1229
00:46:06,010 --> 00:46:04,369
and we'd been taking photos throughout

1230
00:46:07,720 --> 00:46:06,020
the building and just kind of you know

1231
00:46:08,980 --> 00:46:07,730
having an evening up there walking

1232
00:46:10,240 --> 00:46:08,990
around I think we'd you know gotten a

1233
00:46:11,380 --> 00:46:10,250
glass of iced tea and we were just

1234
00:46:13,600 --> 00:46:11,390
taking our time and strolling around

1235
00:46:15,370 --> 00:46:13,610
well the power goes out and this is a

1236
00:46:17,320 --> 00:46:15,380
very very very large building I have to

1237
00:46:19,570 --> 00:46:17,330
say the Grove Park Inn so here we are

1238
00:46:22,180 --> 00:46:19,580
the power goes out and we're right up

1239
00:46:24,100 --> 00:46:22,190
there outside room 545 which is so often

1240
00:46:26,980 --> 00:46:24,110
associated with this mysterious pink

1241
00:46:29,680 --> 00:46:26,990
lady a little woman steps out of the

1242
00:46:31,720 --> 00:46:29,690
room adjacent to 545 and she says oh you

1243
00:46:34,359 --> 00:46:31,730
guys look like Ghost Hunters and I said

1244
00:46:36,460 --> 00:46:34,369
yes ma'am we certainly are she told us

1245
00:46:38,980 --> 00:46:36,470
that she was visiting from that now her

1246
00:46:41,050 --> 00:46:38,990
accent seemed to be obviously foreign

1247
00:46:42,390 --> 00:46:41,060
but she lived in Texas at the time and

1248
00:46:45,520 --> 00:46:42,400
she was with a group they had visited

1249
00:46:48,220 --> 00:46:45,530
the North Carolina on a business trip

1250
00:46:50,320 --> 00:46:48,230
and she said I have a strange ghost

1251
00:46:52,060 --> 00:46:50,330
story I have to tell you about this room

1252
00:46:53,890 --> 00:46:52,070
right next door to us now we hadn't

1253
00:46:55,210 --> 00:46:53,900
approached her and said you know you

1254
00:46:57,609 --> 00:46:55,220
know that room right there

1255
00:46:59,710 --> 00:46:57,619
is associated with this hotel's most

1256
00:47:01,000 --> 00:46:59,720
famous ghost so she comes out and she

1257
00:47:02,349 --> 00:47:01,010
tells us have this ghost story about

1258
00:47:04,540 --> 00:47:02,359
this room next door I've got to tell you

1259
00:47:06,270 --> 00:47:04,550
guys and they said do tell and we sit

1260
00:47:07,960 --> 00:47:06,280
down she offers us chocolate dipped

1261
00:47:09,040 --> 00:47:07,970
strawberries and we're sitting there in

1262
00:47:11,170 --> 00:47:09,050
the dark I think we might have had a

1263
00:47:12,430 --> 00:47:11,180
candle and she begins to tell us that

1264
00:47:14,680 --> 00:47:12,440
the fellow had been staying in the room

1265
00:47:16,660 --> 00:47:14,690
came to breakfast that morning you know

1266
00:47:17,770 --> 00:47:16,670
he looked like he hadn't shaved he just

1267
00:47:19,900 --> 00:47:17,780
looked like he hadn't slept the night

1268
00:47:21,580 --> 00:47:19,910
before and they asked him they said Tom

1269
00:47:22,900 --> 00:47:21,590
what happened what's going on and he

1270
00:47:24,370 --> 00:47:22,910
says well nobody would believe me but I

1271
00:47:25,840 --> 00:47:24,380
might as well tell you since you asked I

1272
00:47:27,910 --> 00:47:25,850
woke up in the middle of the night and I

1273
00:47:29,410 --> 00:47:27,920
had tremendous pressure on my chest I

1274
00:47:31,450 --> 00:47:29,420
couldn't breathe I was just having a

1275
00:47:33,250 --> 00:47:31,460
devil of a time and and I and I woke up

1276
00:47:34,810 --> 00:47:33,260
with this pressure on my chest and I the

1277
00:47:37,660 --> 00:47:34,820
first thing I see are these ruffles of

1278
00:47:40,090 --> 00:47:37,670
pink and I look up into the face of a

1279
00:47:42,250 --> 00:47:40,100
woman sitting on my chest and she's

1280
00:47:44,859 --> 00:47:42,260
gaunt she has long silver hair and she's

1281
00:47:47,260 --> 00:47:44,869
just looking down at me I'm thinking to

1282
00:47:49,870 --> 00:47:47,270
myself what in the world you know who is

1283
00:47:51,880 --> 00:47:49,880
this this person she's obviously mental

1284
00:47:53,620 --> 00:47:51,890
and has broken into my room here it is

1285
00:47:55,390 --> 00:47:53,630
almost 3 o'clock in the morning before I

1286
00:47:57,220 --> 00:47:55,400
could even say anything the weight is

1287
00:47:59,260 --> 00:47:57,230
lifted off my chest and she literally

1288
00:48:01,210 --> 00:47:59,270
vanishes right there now what's

1289
00:48:03,370 --> 00:48:01,220
interesting about this case is that to

1290
00:48:05,230 --> 00:48:03,380
my knowledge this fellow had not known

1291
00:48:07,630 --> 00:48:05,240
in advance that he was staying in a room

1292
00:48:09,460 --> 00:48:07,640
associated with this ghost nor did he

1293
00:48:12,190 --> 00:48:09,470
have knowledge to the best of my ability

1294
00:48:14,650 --> 00:48:12,200
to ask the person telling me this at the

1295
00:48:16,750 --> 00:48:14,660
time nor did he have knowledge of there

1296
00:48:18,340 --> 00:48:16,760
being a pink lady at the Grove Park yet

1297
00:48:20,290 --> 00:48:18,350
however he stayed the night in the room

1298
00:48:22,150 --> 00:48:20,300
he had this experience and this

1299
00:48:24,130 --> 00:48:22,160
experience with the weight on the chest

1300
00:48:25,780 --> 00:48:24,140
and waking up and seeing an entity in

1301
00:48:28,540 --> 00:48:25,790
the room with you is remarkably similar

1302
00:48:30,700 --> 00:48:28,550
to you know in instances where sleep

1303
00:48:33,070 --> 00:48:30,710
paralysis occurs or you know devil

1304
00:48:34,540 --> 00:48:33,080
riding your back not hag this sort of

1305
00:48:36,130 --> 00:48:34,550
phenomenon so I thought that was very

1306
00:48:38,370 --> 00:48:36,140
interesting that you know of all things

1307
00:48:40,720 --> 00:48:38,380
this man would occur he sees a woman who

1308
00:48:42,580 --> 00:48:40,730
interestingly with the gaunt face the

1309
00:48:43,870 --> 00:48:42,590
long silver hair that does not match the

1310
00:48:45,310 --> 00:48:43,880
description of the pink lady she's

1311
00:48:47,830 --> 00:48:45,320
typically described as being a young

1312
00:48:49,599 --> 00:48:47,840
woman with you know golden hair or

1313
00:48:51,370 --> 00:48:49,609
sometimes she's a brunette but either

1314
00:48:52,780 --> 00:48:51,380
way she's a young very attractive woman

1315
00:48:54,820 --> 00:48:52,790
in a pink gown

1316
00:48:56,290 --> 00:48:54,830
the pink ruffled dress was there but

1317
00:48:57,700 --> 00:48:56,300
this was an older looking woman and she

1318
00:49:00,280 --> 00:48:57,710
was indeed sitting on his chest just

1319
00:49:02,650 --> 00:49:00,290
like in a number of instances with sleep

1320
00:49:04,030 --> 00:49:02,660
paralysis so that got me thinking that

1321
00:49:06,310 --> 00:49:04,040
maybe there was something more to the

1322
00:49:08,200 --> 00:49:06,320
reports of this ghost scene there at the

1323
00:49:09,250 --> 00:49:08,210
the Grove Park Inn and indeed you know

1324
00:49:11,320 --> 00:49:09,260
if you dig through the literature there

1325
00:49:12,970 --> 00:49:11,330
are a number of reports like that that

1326
00:49:14,500 --> 00:49:12,980
don't just occur in that room but occur

1327
00:49:16,510 --> 00:49:14,510
throughout the hotel with with a similar

1328
00:49:20,470 --> 00:49:16,520
apparition well you know you bring up a

1329
00:49:23,650 --> 00:49:20,480
good point there like I I to have have

1330
00:49:26,440 --> 00:49:23,660
you know investigated cases where you

1331
00:49:28,660 --> 00:49:26,450
have a semblance of what you have

1332
00:49:31,300 --> 00:49:28,670
associated with a particular phenomenon

1333
00:49:32,770 --> 00:49:31,310
you have a kind of a resemblance there

1334
00:49:34,510 --> 00:49:32,780
but then there is that personal bias

1335
00:49:37,810 --> 00:49:34,520
that comes in in terms of the actual

1336
00:49:39,849 --> 00:49:37,820
experience and it tends to I think have

1337
00:49:41,590 --> 00:49:39,859
hints like you have just mentioned it

1338
00:49:44,349 --> 00:49:41,600
was a very good illustration of this

1339
00:49:46,210 --> 00:49:44,359
point yeah you have hints of of what has

1340
00:49:48,340 --> 00:49:46,220
been reported prior but then there is

1341
00:49:51,190 --> 00:49:48,350
this this slant there's this personal

1342
00:49:53,950 --> 00:49:51,200
bias thing going on there and I think in

1343
00:49:56,410 --> 00:49:53,960
haunted side investigations one of the

1344
00:49:58,060 --> 00:49:56,420
really good things about them I think is

1345
00:49:59,140 --> 00:49:58,070
because they they're not like UFOs you

1346
00:50:00,910 --> 00:49:59,150
don't have to go out chasing around

1347
00:50:02,640 --> 00:50:00,920
hoping that they'll appear

1348
00:50:05,980 --> 00:50:02,650
you're dealing with a location specific

1349
00:50:08,590 --> 00:50:05,990
scenario and that's that's why I think

1350
00:50:12,099 --> 00:50:08,600
on its site investigations could be a

1351
00:50:13,900 --> 00:50:12,109
real shortcut I think for people were

1352
00:50:15,140 --> 00:50:13,910
interested in establishing scientific

1353
00:50:18,350 --> 00:50:15,150
data around

1354
00:50:19,880 --> 00:50:18,360
normal type events I think I think it's

1355
00:50:22,100 --> 00:50:19,890
good that people are getting out there

1356
00:50:23,840 --> 00:50:22,110
but one of the things that is a problem

1357
00:50:25,670 --> 00:50:23,850
I think is you have a lot of weekend

1358
00:50:29,570 --> 00:50:25,680
warriors out there that are they're

1359
00:50:32,120 --> 00:50:29,580
going out there and and I just posted on

1360
00:50:35,150 --> 00:50:32,130
you know the for America's comm our

1361
00:50:37,010 --> 00:50:35,160
great forum boards a story about some

1362
00:50:39,800 --> 00:50:37,020
ghost hunters in England that actually

1363
00:50:42,380 --> 00:50:39,810
got scared out of a haunted site because

1364
00:50:44,630 --> 00:50:42,390
they they got up close and personal with

1365
00:50:45,980 --> 00:50:44,640
something that that you know that I

1366
00:50:48,160 --> 00:50:45,990
guess they weren't prepared for and they

1367
00:50:50,480 --> 00:50:48,170
ended up screaming from the building so

1368
00:50:52,700 --> 00:50:50,490
it's a it's kind of a careful what you

1369
00:50:54,950 --> 00:50:52,710
wish for a scenario I think as well so I

1370
00:50:57,770 --> 00:50:54,960
think people need to undergo at least

1371
00:51:00,200 --> 00:50:57,780
you know a basic training on how to

1372
00:51:03,410 --> 00:51:00,210
properly conduct an investigation and I

1373
00:51:05,990 --> 00:51:03,420
think State of Mind attitude you know a

1374
00:51:09,470 --> 00:51:06,000
sense of objectivity and you know you

1375
00:51:11,830 --> 00:51:09,480
have to not be easily shaken or you have

1376
00:51:14,270 --> 00:51:11,840
to be an unflappable to a certain degree

1377
00:51:15,500 --> 00:51:14,280
possible now we're very unflappable

1378
00:51:18,560 --> 00:51:15,510
right now where I could have flap around

1379
00:51:21,020 --> 00:51:18,570
because we I do this grassman exactly

1380
00:51:23,240 --> 00:51:21,030
Mothman doesn't flop flap it will be a

1381
00:51:25,190 --> 00:51:23,250
flop if we flap we want to hear from you

1382
00:51:26,930 --> 00:51:25,200
yes we do if you have a comment or a

1383
00:51:29,540 --> 00:51:26,940
question about the power cast write us

1384
00:51:32,150 --> 00:51:29,550
news at the power cast comm once again

1385
00:51:34,790 --> 00:51:32,160
news at the power cast comm we read

1386
00:51:37,190 --> 00:51:34,800
every single message we get we have

1387
00:51:39,470 --> 00:51:37,200
Micah Hanks I'm gene Steinberg Chris

1388
00:51:49,500 --> 00:51:39,480
O'Brien's the co-host you're in the para

1389
00:51:54,130 --> 00:51:52,180
hi this is Ted Anderson if you own an

1390
00:51:56,380 --> 00:51:54,140
Apple iPhone and love to listen to your

1391
00:51:58,150 --> 00:51:56,390
favorite programs on GCN I've got good

1392
00:52:00,490 --> 00:51:58,160
news for you I'm proud to announce that

1393
00:52:03,100 --> 00:52:00,500
GCN has a brand new iPhone app available

1394
00:52:05,020 --> 00:52:03,110
for our dedicated listeners at GC and

1395
00:52:07,120 --> 00:52:05,030
live.com listen to your favorite

1396
00:52:09,190 --> 00:52:07,130
hard-hitting GCM programs live or

1397
00:52:11,410 --> 00:52:09,200
on-demand right on your iPhone and the

1398
00:52:13,810 --> 00:52:11,420
best part the gcn iPhone app can be

1399
00:52:15,640 --> 00:52:13,820
yours absolutely free download the

1400
00:52:18,780 --> 00:52:15,650
iPhone app today by clicking on the

1401
00:52:21,310 --> 00:52:18,790
banner at GCM live.com again that's GCN

1402
00:52:23,020 --> 00:52:21,320
live.com hi this is Ted Anderson have

1403
00:52:24,550 --> 00:52:23,030
you ever wondered why banks stockbrokers

1404
00:52:26,440 --> 00:52:24,560
investment advisors won't talk about

1405
00:52:28,930 --> 00:52:26,450
gold IRAs they've been available since

1406
00:52:30,730 --> 00:52:28,940
1986 yet the financial industry won't

1407
00:52:31,390 --> 00:52:30,740
recognize the value of gold for your

1408
00:52:33,280 --> 00:52:31,400
retirement

1409
00:52:35,440 --> 00:52:33,290
gold has outperformed paper investments

1410
00:52:48,270 --> 00:52:35,450
yet no word about IRAs if you would like

1411
00:53:04,230 --> 00:52:49,830
806-853-9949

1412
00:53:09,770 --> 00:53:05,830
[Music]

1413
00:53:12,980 --> 00:53:09,780
we're continuing here as we explore the

1414
00:53:15,500 --> 00:53:12,990
strange the unknown the flapping and the

1415
00:53:17,120 --> 00:53:15,510
flipping how about that with Micah Hanks

1416
00:53:18,740 --> 00:53:17,130
on the power cast with Gene and Chris

1417
00:53:20,420 --> 00:53:18,750
Chris why'd you pick up on the

1418
00:53:21,950 --> 00:53:20,430
questioning well what other types of

1419
00:53:24,710 --> 00:53:21,960
investigative work have you done out in

1420
00:53:26,180 --> 00:53:24,720
the field I know that you in and Joshua

1421
00:53:28,430 --> 00:53:26,190
have been involved in quite a number of

1422
00:53:30,140 --> 00:53:28,440
investigations what what what are the

1423
00:53:32,000 --> 00:53:30,150
most memorable ones that you've been

1424
00:53:33,530 --> 00:53:32,010
personally involved with well you know I

1425
00:53:37,160 --> 00:53:33,540
mean I think that perhaps we're best

1426
00:53:38,990 --> 00:53:37,170
known for together at least is the our

1427
00:53:41,990 --> 00:53:39,000
research into the brown mountain lions

1428
00:53:44,560 --> 00:53:42,000
which is a earth light phenomenon seen

1429
00:53:46,700 --> 00:53:44,570
here in the western North Carolina area

1430
00:53:48,650 --> 00:53:46,710
granted you know Joshua and I you know

1431
00:53:50,450 --> 00:53:48,660
see I was a member of his of his lemur

1432
00:53:53,060 --> 00:53:50,460
paranormal investigation team for a

1433
00:53:54,950 --> 00:53:53,070
number of years and you know I'm no

1434
00:53:56,330 --> 00:53:54,960
longer a member because and you know I

1435
00:53:58,640 --> 00:53:56,340
think that we all go in different

1436
00:54:01,370 --> 00:53:58,650
directions at some point you know Joshua

1437
00:54:02,810 --> 00:54:01,380
he um he has a laboratory and he's doing

1438
00:54:06,080 --> 00:54:02,820
scientific work right now which I

1439
00:54:07,400 --> 00:54:06,090
heartily heartily support and of course

1440
00:54:08,960 --> 00:54:07,410
you know you can i think i think there's

1441
00:54:10,970 --> 00:54:08,970
information about the lemur lab

1442
00:54:12,050 --> 00:54:10,980
available on online if you just want to

1443
00:54:14,330 --> 00:54:12,060
google that you can learn more about

1444
00:54:17,030 --> 00:54:14,340
what Joshua and the lemur team are doing

1445
00:54:18,500 --> 00:54:17,040
but you know I think that you know what

1446
00:54:21,140 --> 00:54:18,510
I'm able and what I feel I'm able to

1447
00:54:23,210 --> 00:54:21,150
lend to this it's fuel to study right

1448
00:54:24,890 --> 00:54:23,220
now is trying to tie together you know

1449
00:54:26,450 --> 00:54:24,900
I've spent a lot of time you know out

1450
00:54:27,680 --> 00:54:26,460
there in the field doing this sort of

1451
00:54:29,060 --> 00:54:27,690
stuff which we'll get to to answer your

1452
00:54:31,910 --> 00:54:29,070
question here in a moment right now I'm

1453
00:54:33,500 --> 00:54:31,920
trying to look at at cultural and and

1454
00:54:35,600 --> 00:54:33,510
and even you know psychological

1455
00:54:37,100 --> 00:54:35,610
perspectives of this right now and and

1456
00:54:39,290 --> 00:54:37,110
maybe we will touch on this a little bit

1457
00:54:41,600 --> 00:54:39,300
later I mentioned this what I call the

1458
00:54:42,950 --> 00:54:41,610
forty and folk devil premise which is

1459
00:54:44,780 --> 00:54:42,960
something I've been kind of developing

1460
00:54:46,220 --> 00:54:44,790
and and I think that that's kind of

1461
00:54:48,200 --> 00:54:46,230
where my research is going so again you

1462
00:54:50,000 --> 00:54:48,210
know Joshua and I we've worked together

1463
00:54:51,980 --> 00:54:50,010
off and on for a number of years and and

1464
00:54:53,750 --> 00:54:51,990
while he and the team are still working

1465
00:54:55,430 --> 00:54:53,760
with the laboratory and and some of

1466
00:54:56,570 --> 00:54:55,440
their individual investigations and

1467
00:54:58,670 --> 00:54:56,580
things you know I'm kind of backing off

1468
00:55:00,110 --> 00:54:58,680
I'm looking at the the big picture right

1469
00:55:03,410 --> 00:55:00,120
now I'm trying to tie together elements

1470
00:55:06,200 --> 00:55:03,420
here and see where this goes that said

1471
00:55:07,850 --> 00:55:06,210
during our years working together Joshua

1472
00:55:09,320 --> 00:55:07,860
and I probably are best known for

1473
00:55:11,720 --> 00:55:09,330
working together on what was the brown

1474
00:55:13,820 --> 00:55:11,730
mountain research of course this was an

1475
00:55:16,250 --> 00:55:13,830
accumulation of more than a decade you

1476
00:55:17,160 --> 00:55:16,260
know of combined research between he and

1477
00:55:18,539 --> 00:55:17,170
I on several other in

1478
00:55:20,130 --> 00:55:18,549
vegetables and then uh there were other

1479
00:55:22,319 --> 00:55:20,140
organizations and teams like the Orion

1480
00:55:25,349 --> 00:55:22,329
team based out of Oak Ridge Tennessee

1481
00:55:27,450 --> 00:55:25,359
that that you know and this was as the

1482
00:55:28,980 --> 00:55:27,460
name might entail this did involve a

1483
00:55:30,289 --> 00:55:28,990
number of researchers who were

1484
00:55:33,870 --> 00:55:30,299
scientists there at the Oak Ridge

1485
00:55:35,039 --> 00:55:33,880
facility who would visit brown Mountain

1486
00:55:36,390 --> 00:55:35,049
and try and study the phenomenon and

1487
00:55:38,579 --> 00:55:36,400
trying to understand exactly what was

1488
00:55:40,410 --> 00:55:38,589
going on so but without further ado I'll

1489
00:55:42,480 --> 00:55:40,420
tell you just a bit about Brown Mountain

1490
00:55:44,430 --> 00:55:42,490
for you or the listeners who may not you

1491
00:55:47,280 --> 00:55:44,440
know be up to speed on this there have

1492
00:55:48,960 --> 00:55:47,290
been reports of self-contained you know

1493
00:55:50,700 --> 00:55:48,970
maybe roughly basketball to beach ball

1494
00:55:52,380 --> 00:55:50,710
sized illuminations but they're

1495
00:55:54,750 --> 00:55:52,390
typically described as spheres of light

1496
00:55:58,140 --> 00:55:54,760
that appear within the vicinity of the

1497
00:55:59,789 --> 00:55:58,150
Linville Gorge which is probably right

1498
00:56:01,079 --> 00:55:59,799
outside of a little town called Linville

1499
00:56:03,089 --> 00:56:01,089
Falls but between Linville Falls

1500
00:56:04,799 --> 00:56:03,099
Morganton and and then boone north of

1501
00:56:06,930 --> 00:56:04,809
there I've spent a lot of time

1502
00:56:09,240 --> 00:56:06,940
throughout that region I have seen on a

1503
00:56:12,780 --> 00:56:09,250
couple of instances some some

1504
00:56:15,210 --> 00:56:12,790
unexplainable illuminations a large red

1505
00:56:17,670 --> 00:56:15,220
orb of light one evening erupted from

1506
00:56:19,859 --> 00:56:17,680
out of the valley above the limbal River

1507
00:56:22,170 --> 00:56:19,869
and my brother a fellow by the name of

1508
00:56:23,700 --> 00:56:22,180
dr. Chris Blake and an associate

1509
00:56:26,069 --> 00:56:23,710
actually two other associates and I

1510
00:56:28,770 --> 00:56:26,079
we're on top of Table Rock which is

1511
00:56:30,450 --> 00:56:28,780
adjacent to Wiseman's of view Wiseman's

1512
00:56:32,970 --> 00:56:30,460
view is probably the very best in my

1513
00:56:35,339 --> 00:56:32,980
opinion the very best spot where you can

1514
00:56:37,380 --> 00:56:35,349
actually view this phenomenon the other

1515
00:56:39,870 --> 00:56:37,390
Brown Mountain lights is there a number

1516
00:56:42,150 --> 00:56:39,880
of years ago really oh yeah and so you

1517
00:56:43,319 --> 00:56:42,160
can you can attest to it's not only just

1518
00:56:45,480 --> 00:56:43,329
I mean there being a fascinating

1519
00:56:46,980 --> 00:56:45,490
location for viewing the phenomenon

1520
00:56:48,660 --> 00:56:46,990
there but it's also described is one of

1521
00:56:51,089 --> 00:56:48,670
the most beautiful you know views on the

1522
00:56:53,730 --> 00:56:51,099
eastern well east of the Mississippi so

1523
00:56:55,260 --> 00:56:53,740
I need to drive up there though the

1524
00:56:56,789 --> 00:56:55,270
drive can be a little scary if it's been

1525
00:56:58,049 --> 00:56:56,799
raining if it's foggy or if there's any

1526
00:57:00,120 --> 00:56:58,059
ice on the ground you don't want to have

1527
00:57:02,160 --> 00:57:00,130
to drive up there to to get to the

1528
00:57:04,380 --> 00:57:02,170
lights unfortunately I have friends just

1529
00:57:06,960 --> 00:57:04,390
outside of the vicinity of Wiseman's

1530
00:57:08,609 --> 00:57:06,970
view who owned a hotel and I don't think

1531
00:57:09,720 --> 00:57:08,619
she'd mind giving her name out right now

1532
00:57:11,430 --> 00:57:09,730
because we've gone on television

1533
00:57:13,319 --> 00:57:11,440
programs before and talked about this

1534
00:57:14,760 --> 00:57:13,329
but Cindy Peters a good friend of mine

1535
00:57:16,740 --> 00:57:14,770
who has the Park View Lodge and I'm sure

1536
00:57:17,880 --> 00:57:16,750
that if people want to contact Cindy if

1537
00:57:18,870 --> 00:57:17,890
they're interested in going up to the

1538
00:57:20,430 --> 00:57:18,880
area and looking around and they don't

1539
00:57:22,319 --> 00:57:20,440
want to have to drive all the way back

1540
00:57:23,579 --> 00:57:22,329
to another one of the nearby towns you

1541
00:57:26,010 --> 00:57:23,589
can stay with Cindy and she'd love to

1542
00:57:28,049 --> 00:57:26,020
have you that said I've spent a number

1543
00:57:30,359 --> 00:57:28,059
of years up there observing you know

1544
00:57:30,690 --> 00:57:30,369
I've spent time with you know some of

1545
00:57:32,940 --> 00:57:30,700
the

1546
00:57:36,270 --> 00:57:32,950
searchers like dan Katyn who is actually

1547
00:57:38,790 --> 00:57:36,280
he's an astronomer at ASU University

1548
00:57:41,520 --> 00:57:38,800
over in Boone Dan's very cynical and

1549
00:57:42,900 --> 00:57:41,530
skeptical and he'd tell you that but

1550
00:57:44,310 --> 00:57:42,910
I've spent time talking with Dan about

1551
00:57:46,560 --> 00:57:44,320
this I've spent time you know with

1552
00:57:48,270 --> 00:57:46,570
Joshua and of course you know to the

1553
00:57:49,980 --> 00:57:48,280
best of our ability to discern what's

1554
00:57:52,170 --> 00:57:49,990
going on up there you know our the

1555
00:57:54,240 --> 00:57:52,180
accumulation of evidence and poring over

1556
00:57:56,280 --> 00:57:54,250
data poring over a similar phenomenon

1557
00:57:58,560 --> 00:57:56,290
that occurs around the world like Estill

1558
00:58:00,540 --> 00:57:58,570
and Norway and also there are reports of

1559
00:58:01,800 --> 00:58:00,550
life seen near Marfa Texas the best that

1560
00:58:03,960 --> 00:58:01,810
we can discern is that there's some sort

1561
00:58:06,060 --> 00:58:03,970
of a plasma phenomenon that's occurring

1562
00:58:08,220 --> 00:58:06,070
some sort of a self-contained ball

1563
00:58:09,450 --> 00:58:08,230
lightning like manifestation and that

1564
00:58:12,300 --> 00:58:09,460
these are in the truest sense the the

1565
00:58:14,700 --> 00:58:12,310
term you know atmospheric phenomenon but

1566
00:58:17,490 --> 00:58:14,710
what is unique about them and what is

1567
00:58:19,650 --> 00:58:17,500
captured not only our fascination in our

1568
00:58:22,020 --> 00:58:19,660
and our imaginations for you know more

1569
00:58:24,599 --> 00:58:22,030
than a decade as well as many others is

1570
00:58:26,339 --> 00:58:24,609
that these things do tend to appear I

1571
00:58:28,710 --> 00:58:26,349
have friends as a matter of fact a very

1572
00:58:30,540 --> 00:58:28,720
well known you know photographer from

1573
00:58:32,190 --> 00:58:30,550
Pennsylvania named Bob Ashmore who have

1574
00:58:33,750 --> 00:58:32,200
contributed photos that he'd taken of

1575
00:58:35,339 --> 00:58:33,760
these lights for an article I wrote for

1576
00:58:37,530 --> 00:58:35,349
the Journal of anomalous science as a

1577
00:58:39,240 --> 00:58:37,540
couple of years ago that issue actually

1578
00:58:41,880 --> 00:58:39,250
featured Joshua and I on the cover

1579
00:58:43,950 --> 00:58:41,890
talking about our research into the

1580
00:58:45,300 --> 00:58:43,960
brown mountain lives and so these things

1581
00:58:46,859 --> 00:58:45,310
they're not something that people it's

1582
00:58:47,880 --> 00:58:46,869
kind of folklore people talk about it

1583
00:58:49,260 --> 00:58:47,890
and people you know claim that they've

1584
00:58:51,030 --> 00:58:49,270
seen them I mean there are photographs

1585
00:58:53,339 --> 00:58:51,040
you know there are you know probably

1586
00:58:54,660 --> 00:58:53,349
hundreds if not thousands of witnesses

1587
00:58:56,819 --> 00:58:54,670
that have actually observed these lights

1588
00:59:00,030 --> 00:58:56,829
over the years the mystery is we don't

1589
00:59:02,370 --> 00:59:00,040
know exactly how self-contained spheres

1590
00:59:04,740 --> 00:59:02,380
of light could appear and could hover in

1591
00:59:06,660 --> 00:59:04,750
the air and and and what sort of energy

1592
00:59:09,240 --> 00:59:06,670
source could cause these things to

1593
00:59:11,130 --> 00:59:09,250
remain you know glowing and bright and

1594
00:59:12,660 --> 00:59:11,140
floating around in the sky I mean it's

1595
00:59:13,829 --> 00:59:12,670
the damnedest thing so that's what we're

1596
00:59:15,809 --> 00:59:13,839
trying to understand and that's I think

1597
00:59:17,460 --> 00:59:15,819
something that you know maybe decades

1598
00:59:18,870 --> 00:59:17,470
before we do understand the energy and

1599
00:59:21,240 --> 00:59:18,880
the impetus behind what causes these

1600
00:59:23,370 --> 00:59:21,250
manifestations so natural phenomena and

1601
00:59:25,230 --> 00:59:23,380
I think there was a guy that we met

1602
00:59:27,660 --> 00:59:25,240
years ago Allen Greenfield and I went

1603
00:59:29,460 --> 00:59:27,670
out to Brown Mountain lights to see what

1604
00:59:31,920 --> 00:59:29,470
was going on at Weitzman's view we

1605
00:59:33,420 --> 00:59:31,930
didn't see anything unconventional but

1606
00:59:36,599 --> 00:59:33,430
there was a fellow in the town there a

1607
00:59:38,970 --> 00:59:36,609
Ralph Leo I believe who was selling a

1608
00:59:41,190 --> 00:59:38,980
book saying of course that the Brown

1609
00:59:42,819 --> 00:59:41,200
Mountain lights came here because of et

1610
00:59:44,859 --> 00:59:42,829
and he was around acting

1611
00:59:46,479 --> 00:59:44,869
did you meet Ralph by the way yes we did

1612
00:59:48,130 --> 00:59:46,489
oh wow that's fascinating you know I

1613
00:59:50,109 --> 00:59:48,140
only know a handful people in who knew

1614
00:59:52,390 --> 00:59:50,119
him there his he has a granddaughter I

1615
00:59:55,509 --> 00:59:52,400
believe named Virginia who I spoke to

1616
00:59:57,579 --> 00:59:55,519
once via email and she had described

1617
00:59:59,979 --> 00:59:57,589
going up to the the outer space Rock

1618
01:00:01,390 --> 00:59:59,989
shop up there I weigh what anyone that

1619
01:00:03,400 --> 01:00:01,400
probably is where you met Ralph am I

1620
01:00:05,640 --> 01:00:03,410
correct that is correct yes this is a

1621
01:00:08,919 --> 01:00:05,650
long time ago in a galaxy far far away

1622
01:00:11,739 --> 01:00:08,929
it was myself my first wife Geneva and

1623
01:00:13,269 --> 01:00:11,749
Alan Greenfield then no doubt the alien

1624
01:00:14,049 --> 01:00:13,279
mummy did you see the alien saw the

1625
01:00:15,699 --> 01:00:14,059
alien mummy

1626
01:00:18,759 --> 01:00:15,709
we may have photographed somewhere if I

1627
01:00:20,709 --> 01:00:18,769
don't I know Alan probably does maybe on

1628
01:00:22,839 --> 01:00:20,719
the show Tim Beckley also has

1629
01:00:24,429 --> 01:00:22,849
photographs that he had shared with me

1630
01:00:27,789 --> 01:00:24,439
and then another gentleman from the area

1631
01:00:29,140 --> 01:00:27,799
so that he had some tamiya and I'm sure

1632
01:00:31,419 --> 01:00:29,150
if you if you saw it you may feel the

1633
01:00:33,819 --> 01:00:31,429
same there was actually a I think there

1634
01:00:35,890 --> 01:00:33,829
was a he was a kind of a frontier side

1635
01:00:37,179 --> 01:00:35,900
to show caterer of sorts this fella I

1636
01:00:39,519 --> 01:00:37,189
can't remember his name but I wrote

1637
01:00:41,529 --> 01:00:39,529
about it for UFO magazine last year

1638
01:00:43,359 --> 01:00:41,539
sometime there was an individual who

1639
01:00:45,999 --> 01:00:43,369
actually would create these these little

1640
01:00:47,679 --> 01:00:46,009
mummies he would he would use little

1641
01:00:49,539 --> 01:00:47,689
parts from it sounds really kind of

1642
01:00:51,669 --> 01:00:49,549
gruesome and macabre but he would find

1643
01:00:56,490 --> 01:00:51,679
little parts of animal name by the way

1644
01:00:59,579 --> 01:00:56,500
macabre gruesome gruesome gruesome well

1645
01:01:02,319 --> 01:00:59,589
[Laughter]

1646
01:01:04,209 --> 01:01:02,329
this fella he would gather little parts

1647
01:01:05,799 --> 01:01:04,219
from animal corpses he would find out in

1648
01:01:08,140 --> 01:01:05,809
the desert and he would incorporate them

1649
01:01:09,400 --> 01:01:08,150
into little mud mummies and things that

1650
01:01:10,809 --> 01:01:09,410
he would make what was this character's

1651
01:01:11,799 --> 01:01:10,819
name I'll have to dig it up and

1652
01:01:13,239 --> 01:01:11,809
everything I read it all over the

1653
01:01:16,059 --> 01:01:13,249
graylien report someplace and again

1654
01:01:17,890 --> 01:01:16,069
interesting hobby it certainly was this

1655
01:01:20,349 --> 01:01:17,900
was a really dig this up I think there's

1656
01:01:22,089 --> 01:01:20,359
website shot sideshow world.com that has

1657
01:01:23,439 --> 01:01:22,099
some information about this fella he

1658
01:01:25,029 --> 01:01:23,449
would do a mail-order catalog where you

1659
01:01:26,769 --> 01:01:25,039
could order these little weird mummies

1660
01:01:28,689 --> 01:01:26,779
and he had you know there's a little

1661
01:01:30,999 --> 01:01:28,699
Tarzan character there was a little man

1662
01:01:32,349 --> 01:01:31,009
from Mars which is very appropriate

1663
01:01:34,150 --> 01:01:32,359
considering what we're talking about

1664
01:01:35,499 --> 01:01:34,160
here with Ralph Leo having an alien

1665
01:01:36,969 --> 01:01:35,509
mummy and for the listeners who are

1666
01:01:37,390 --> 01:01:36,979
familiar with the story of this alien

1667
01:01:39,459 --> 01:01:37,400
mummy

1668
01:01:40,839 --> 01:01:39,469
Ralph whale of course was one of the the

1669
01:01:42,370 --> 01:01:40,849
local characters that was seen around

1670
01:01:43,870 --> 01:01:42,380
the Linville Gorge area he kind of

1671
01:01:44,979 --> 01:01:43,880
capitalized on the the Brown Mountain

1672
01:01:46,719 --> 01:01:44,989
lights myth and said that there were

1673
01:01:48,309 --> 01:01:46,729
aliens from outer space right

1674
01:01:51,819 --> 01:01:48,319
specifically I think from the Planet P

1675
01:01:54,999 --> 01:01:51,829
Wham and and and he also said that he

1676
01:01:56,500 --> 01:01:55,009
had a being that was laying in a little

1677
01:01:58,690 --> 01:01:56,510
coffin that he kept in the back of his

1678
01:02:00,730 --> 01:01:58,700
shop with Eugene said that you would a

1679
01:02:03,130 --> 01:02:00,740
visit visit and actually been able to

1680
01:02:04,720 --> 01:02:03,140
see along with other researchers to the

1681
01:02:06,670 --> 01:02:04,730
best of my understanding this was

1682
01:02:09,280 --> 01:02:06,680
probably Homer Tate was his name homer

1683
01:02:11,230 --> 01:02:09,290
in Tate was this guy who would collect

1684
01:02:12,610 --> 01:02:11,240
you know bits of mud and scraps and

1685
01:02:13,900 --> 01:02:12,620
things like that little teeth and bones

1686
01:02:15,490 --> 01:02:13,910
from animals and he would incorporate

1687
01:02:17,470 --> 01:02:15,500
these into these little mummies he would

1688
01:02:19,090 --> 01:02:17,480
make and he'd ship them off to you using

1689
01:02:20,710 --> 01:02:19,100
mail-order catalogs and people who had

1690
01:02:22,180 --> 01:02:20,720
little kind of sideshows and little

1691
01:02:24,040 --> 01:02:22,190
roadside museums and things like that

1692
01:02:25,720 --> 01:02:24,050
would buy these things and you know

1693
01:02:27,220 --> 01:02:25,730
feature them as curiosities and

1694
01:02:28,660 --> 01:02:27,230
attractions and they're in their little

1695
01:02:30,760 --> 01:02:28,670
shops and their little traveling

1696
01:02:32,920 --> 01:02:30,770
circuses and things God does what so

1697
01:02:34,540 --> 01:02:32,930
before we had all the online businesses

1698
01:02:36,850 --> 01:02:34,550
taking over that kind of thing we have

1699
01:02:38,380 --> 01:02:36,860
Micah Hanks and he's not a sideshow he

1700
01:02:40,240 --> 01:02:38,390
has the graylien report and lots of

1701
01:02:42,850 --> 01:02:40,250
other stuff the co-host is Chris O'Brien

1702
01:02:51,100 --> 01:02:42,860
I'm gene Steinberg you're in the para

1703
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cast have you been sitting on a few

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great domain name ideas but haven't

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can buy them through the number one

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1717
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provides true reports of the strange and

1718
01:03:25,810 --> 01:03:24,590
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1719
01:03:28,870 --> 01:03:25,820
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1720
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1721
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1722
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1723
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1725
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1726
01:03:47,320 --> 01:03:44,410
that's one eight hundred seven two eight

1727
01:03:51,130 --> 01:03:47,330
twenty seven thirty what are you waiting

1728
01:03:53,380 --> 01:03:51,140
for your fate awaits dr. David berry has

1729
01:03:55,660 --> 01:03:53,390
provided excellent advice for all those

1730
01:03:58,150 --> 01:03:55,670
interested in practical economics and

1731
01:04:00,070 --> 01:03:58,160
sound money it's certainly worth reading

1732
01:04:02,710 --> 01:04:00,080
that's what congressman ron paul said

1733
01:04:04,670 --> 01:04:02,720
about cha ching wisdom 123 practical

1734
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universal truths about money the

1735
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by dr. David berry the cool part of this

1736
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book certainly it will speak to you

1737
01:04:11,930 --> 01:04:10,380
personally your life your lifestyle your

1738
01:04:14,329 --> 01:04:11,940
your money your investments but it also

1739
01:04:15,829 --> 01:04:14,339
can be generalised into the nation

1740
01:04:17,480 --> 01:04:15,839
what's going on as a nation we do these

1741
01:04:18,049 --> 01:04:17,490
same things but personally that we do as

1742
01:04:19,940 --> 01:04:18,059
a nation

1743
01:04:21,559 --> 01:04:19,950
dr. Berry's book touching wisdom

1744
01:04:23,299 --> 01:04:21,569
presents many facets of your

1745
01:04:25,400 --> 01:04:23,309
relationship with the once almighty

1746
01:04:27,620 --> 01:04:25,410
dollar and how current national and

1747
01:04:29,299 --> 01:04:27,630
international politics affect your daily

1748
01:04:31,520 --> 01:04:29,309
life some of the other things are about

1749
01:04:33,319 --> 01:04:31,530
that they're not just economic they're

1750
01:04:34,790 --> 01:04:33,329
philosophical there's psychology

1751
01:04:36,859 --> 01:04:34,800
involved in this book there's philosophy

1752
01:04:39,980 --> 01:04:36,869
and bulk this book read touching wisdom

1753
01:04:44,510 --> 01:04:39,990
by dr. David berry only 995 available at

1754
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chi-ching wisdom calm that CH a CH I ng

1755
01:04:52,430 --> 01:04:50,040
wisdom calm cha-ching wisdom calm on the

1756
01:04:54,049 --> 01:04:52,440
average Americans work between 45 to 50

1757
01:04:55,490 --> 01:04:54,059
years hoping to build up enough wealth

1758
01:04:58,339 --> 01:04:55,500
to retire and live out their golden

1759
01:05:00,799 --> 01:04:58,349
years unfortunately with taxation the

1760
01:05:03,049 --> 01:05:00,809
rising cost of food energy housing and

1761
01:05:05,150 --> 01:05:03,059
medical many retirees are forced to live

1762
01:05:07,339 --> 01:05:05,160
below the poverty line is this a fly

1763
01:05:09,020 --> 01:05:07,349
free enterprise or is our monetary unit

1764
01:05:10,940 --> 01:05:09,030
we call the Federal Reserve Note forcing

1765
01:05:12,890 --> 01:05:10,950
us into perpetual debt insuring

1766
01:05:14,539 --> 01:05:12,900
inflation in higher taxes these

1767
01:05:16,370 --> 01:05:14,549
questions and more can be answered by

1768
01:05:18,380 --> 01:05:16,380
reading G Edward Griffin book the

1769
01:05:20,030 --> 01:05:18,390
creature from Jekyll Island congressman

1770
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Ron Paul States it's what every American

1771
01:05:24,950 --> 01:05:22,799
needs to know about central bank power a

1772
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gripping adventure into the secret world

1773
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of international banking cartel hi this

1774
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is Ted Anderson I will give a silver

1775
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dollar from the early 1900's to anyone

1776
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1777
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1796
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1800
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1803
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1804
01:07:08,859 --> 01:07:07,150
we want to hear from you if you have a

1805
01:07:11,920 --> 01:07:08,869
comment or question about the para cast

1806
01:07:15,009 --> 01:07:11,930
sent it to news at the para cast com

1807
01:07:17,049 --> 01:07:15,019
that's news at the podcast com and if

1808
01:07:18,370 --> 01:07:17,059
you want to catch up on past episodes we

1809
01:07:21,279 --> 01:07:18,380
have hundreds of shows for you to

1810
01:07:24,880 --> 01:07:21,289
download direct from the para cast com

1811
01:07:27,609 --> 01:07:24,890
that's the para cast comm or check us

1812
01:07:29,920 --> 01:07:27,619
out on iTunes I'm Jean Steinberg on the

1813
01:07:32,049 --> 01:07:29,930
para cast with Chris O'Brien the co-host

1814
01:07:34,870 --> 01:07:32,059
Micha Hanks our guest and Mike is the

1815
01:07:37,990 --> 01:07:34,880
kind of person that you say go and he

1816
01:07:39,870 --> 01:07:38,000
continues you don't need any prodding so

1817
01:07:42,339 --> 01:07:39,880
we were talking about that visit to

1818
01:07:45,430 --> 01:07:42,349
Brown Mountain lights to see what was

1819
01:07:46,960 --> 01:07:45,440
going on I think we almost thought we

1820
01:07:48,940 --> 01:07:46,970
saw something but I think it might be an

1821
01:07:51,190 --> 01:07:48,950
aircraft or something you know nothing

1822
01:07:53,559 --> 01:07:51,200
spectacular I kind of thought of the

1823
01:07:56,230 --> 01:07:53,569
scene in Close Encounters of the Third

1824
01:07:58,299 --> 01:07:56,240
Kind where you have all the sky watchers

1825
01:07:59,950 --> 01:07:58,309
out there looking for UFOs out there in

1826
01:08:02,079 --> 01:07:59,960
the country and Richard Dreyfuss is

1827
01:08:03,579 --> 01:08:02,089
there as well he had hair and he wasn't

1828
01:08:06,819 --> 01:08:03,589
overweight and didn't play Dick Cheney

1829
01:08:08,710 --> 01:08:06,829
in the movies and you see something

1830
01:08:11,049 --> 01:08:08,720
coming over but you hear a sound that's

1831
01:08:13,509 --> 01:08:11,059
just a helicopter or or plane or

1832
01:08:15,700 --> 01:08:13,519
something invention 'el so we never had

1833
01:08:17,410 --> 01:08:15,710
the honor of seeing anything weird and

1834
01:08:19,300 --> 01:08:17,420
we have you know characters like Ralph

1835
01:08:21,280 --> 01:08:19,310
flail around the country I guess he's

1836
01:08:23,590 --> 01:08:21,290
the kind of person who if you don't take

1837
01:08:25,870 --> 01:08:23,600
him seriously and you kind of enjoy what

1838
01:08:27,640 --> 01:08:25,880
he has to say it's entertaining has the

1839
01:08:30,309 --> 01:08:27,650
entertainment value gene I think one

1840
01:08:31,629 --> 01:08:30,319
thing we need to doubt and stress is

1841
01:08:33,939 --> 01:08:31,639
that is the Brown Mountain lights have

1842
01:08:35,950 --> 01:08:33,949
been reported for for how long what are

1843
01:08:37,660 --> 01:08:35,960
the earliest references that you've been

1844
01:08:39,490 --> 01:08:37,670
able to find to the lights I know it

1845
01:08:42,070 --> 01:08:39,500
goes back into the late 18th century if

1846
01:08:44,260 --> 01:08:42,080
I if I'm not correct might be miss

1847
01:08:45,910 --> 01:08:44,270
correct on that but no I think you're

1848
01:08:47,439 --> 01:08:45,920
right there there are may be earlier

1849
01:08:48,789 --> 01:08:47,449
reports and the reason I say maybe is

1850
01:08:50,769 --> 01:08:48,799
because you got to keep in mind of

1851
01:08:52,539 --> 01:08:50,779
course the Native Americans specifically

1852
01:08:54,700 --> 01:08:52,549
the Cherokee that were present here in

1853
01:08:55,990 --> 01:08:54,710
Western North Carolina and for all we

1854
01:08:57,550 --> 01:08:56,000
know maybe cultures that you know

1855
01:08:59,289 --> 01:08:57,560
existed you know prior to the Cherokee

1856
01:09:01,419 --> 01:08:59,299
arrival here in the end the south east

1857
01:09:02,950 --> 01:09:01,429
there were always oral traditions that

1858
01:09:04,780 --> 01:09:02,960
describe these sorts of phenomena now

1859
01:09:07,180 --> 01:09:04,790
the only ones that we have available to

1860
01:09:09,010 --> 01:09:07,190
us are these these most recent native

1861
01:09:11,800 --> 01:09:09,020
legends that describe you know spirits I

1862
01:09:13,570 --> 01:09:11,810
think that there was a interpretation of

1863
01:09:15,370 --> 01:09:13,580
the legend and again this is where the

1864
01:09:16,699 --> 01:09:15,380
folkloric aspect kind of comes into a

1865
01:09:19,370 --> 01:09:16,709
lot of this although there are

1866
01:09:21,529 --> 01:09:19,380
absolutely without question strange

1867
01:09:23,660 --> 01:09:21,539
illuminations that appear at Brown

1868
01:09:25,069 --> 01:09:23,670
Mountain which I don't think are UFOs I

1869
01:09:26,509 --> 01:09:25,079
don't think that they're spirits of the

1870
01:09:28,039 --> 01:09:26,519
Dead or anything like that again I think

1871
01:09:30,289 --> 01:09:28,049
that these are you know atmospheric

1872
01:09:31,999 --> 01:09:30,299
phenomenon akin to ball lightning but we

1873
01:09:34,009 --> 01:09:32,009
have folklore throughout the region and

1874
01:09:35,929 --> 01:09:34,019
these early reports based on that

1875
01:09:37,910 --> 01:09:35,939
cultural interpretation described them

1876
01:09:39,589 --> 01:09:37,920
as spirits you know spirits of the Dead

1877
01:09:41,599 --> 01:09:39,599
that it actually remained in that area

1878
01:09:43,339 --> 01:09:41,609
after a great battle that took place in

1879
01:09:44,839 --> 01:09:43,349
the Linville Gorge that was one of the

1880
01:09:46,249 --> 01:09:44,849
early native interpretations as I

1881
01:09:48,049 --> 01:09:46,259
understand it then there were reports

1882
01:09:49,879 --> 01:09:48,059
that came later I think there was a

1883
01:09:51,709 --> 01:09:49,889
German scientist who was said to have

1884
01:09:54,979 --> 01:09:51,719
come through the area maybe even during

1885
01:09:56,660 --> 01:09:54,989
the the late 1700s and and certainly by

1886
01:09:58,520 --> 01:09:56,670
the early 1800s and they were they were

1887
01:10:00,949 --> 01:09:58,530
cataloging and describing you know

1888
01:10:03,410 --> 01:10:00,959
reports of illuminations that were seen

1889
01:10:05,179 --> 01:10:03,420
there around the area so India this is

1890
01:10:06,799 --> 01:10:05,189
something that we've we've you know we

1891
01:10:09,439 --> 01:10:06,809
have knowledge of and have had knowledge

1892
01:10:10,850 --> 01:10:09,449
of you know for as long as settlers have

1893
01:10:13,100 --> 01:10:10,860
have actually existed throughout the

1894
01:10:14,449 --> 01:10:13,110
region and there are cultural oral

1895
01:10:16,219 --> 01:10:14,459
traditions that describe these things

1896
01:10:18,529 --> 01:10:16,229
that exist for even longer than that

1897
01:10:20,359 --> 01:10:18,539
I seem to recall I think was about a

1898
01:10:23,080 --> 01:10:20,369
year year and a half ago that somebody

1899
01:10:26,419 --> 01:10:23,090
posted on the internet some footage that

1900
01:10:29,390 --> 01:10:26,429
allegedly showed manifestations of this

1901
01:10:31,699 --> 01:10:29,400
particular phenomenon I showed it to a

1902
01:10:33,109 --> 01:10:31,709
couple of people and and one of the

1903
01:10:35,449 --> 01:10:33,119
people said oh well that's obviously

1904
01:10:37,279 --> 01:10:35,459
somebody pointing a laser you know there

1905
01:10:39,169 --> 01:10:37,289
was some sort of laser refraction going

1906
01:10:40,729 --> 01:10:39,179
on are you familiar with that footage I

1907
01:10:42,679 --> 01:10:40,739
think was taken about a year and a half

1908
01:10:44,449 --> 01:10:42,689
ago you know surprisingly I'm not

1909
01:10:46,429 --> 01:10:44,459
familiar with that and I would love to

1910
01:10:48,109 --> 01:10:46,439
see it because yeah I have to dig it up

1911
01:10:50,629 --> 01:10:48,119
I'm not sure if Joshua was what was

1912
01:10:53,330 --> 01:10:50,639
there or not I think he may have been

1913
01:10:55,189 --> 01:10:53,340
present at the time so if that was the

1914
01:10:56,750 --> 01:10:55,199
case and that that would be pretty

1915
01:10:58,969 --> 01:10:56,760
strong evidence to me that this was not

1916
01:11:00,770 --> 01:10:58,979
some sort of premeditated hoax of any

1917
01:11:02,870 --> 01:11:00,780
kind because you know I've met Joshua

1918
01:11:04,790 --> 01:11:02,880
and I'm familiar somewhat with his work

1919
01:11:06,830 --> 01:11:04,800
and very familiar with his reputation I

1920
01:11:09,469 --> 01:11:06,840
mean he is a straight shooter as well as

1921
01:11:10,549 --> 01:11:09,479
you are and yeah I don't think that we

1922
01:11:12,739 --> 01:11:10,559
would be dealing with a hoax scenario

1923
01:11:15,560 --> 01:11:12,749
but well one of the the people that I

1924
01:11:18,290 --> 01:11:15,570
showed it to is fairly observant and is

1925
01:11:19,939 --> 01:11:18,300
a pretty good amateur now an analyst and

1926
01:11:21,799 --> 01:11:19,949
and that was the first thing that they

1927
01:11:24,560 --> 01:11:21,809
thought is that we're dealing with a

1928
01:11:27,320 --> 01:11:24,570
laser that somehow being pointed at the

1929
01:11:29,420 --> 01:11:27,330
lens or refracted into the lens somehow

1930
01:11:31,580 --> 01:11:29,430
I personally felt that that wasn't the

1931
01:11:32,960 --> 01:11:31,590
case looking at the footage I will try

1932
01:11:35,180 --> 01:11:32,970
to dig that up and shoot it off to you

1933
01:11:37,460 --> 01:11:35,190
actually make it available online Chris

1934
01:11:39,410 --> 01:11:37,470
let me ask you was this was this used

1935
01:11:42,080 --> 01:11:39,420
the footage you're talking about was it

1936
01:11:44,120 --> 01:11:42,090
night vision and there's a red yes oh

1937
01:11:45,230 --> 01:11:44,130
that actually is something now eh I

1938
01:11:47,240 --> 01:11:45,240
dunno what you're talking about Joshua

1939
01:11:50,840 --> 01:11:47,250
Warren and I were both actually present

1940
01:11:52,820 --> 01:11:50,850
when that was made okay I was by that

1941
01:11:54,950 --> 01:11:52,830
myself I can certainly tell you yeah

1942
01:11:56,660 --> 01:11:54,960
that that that was no in no way a hoax

1943
01:11:58,340 --> 01:11:56,670
in fact uh let me just tell you real

1944
01:11:59,840 --> 01:11:58,350
quickly about the background with regard

1945
01:12:01,640 --> 01:11:59,850
to that and it's funny because see when

1946
01:12:03,050 --> 01:12:01,650
you talk about an illumination I thought

1947
01:12:04,370 --> 01:12:03,060
that you know this is a video I'm

1948
01:12:06,020 --> 01:12:04,380
imagining something that was filmed with

1949
01:12:07,820 --> 01:12:06,030
the little handycam or something like

1950
01:12:09,590 --> 01:12:07,830
that that somebody you know filmed and

1951
01:12:11,510 --> 01:12:09,600
this was posted online that that footage

1952
01:12:12,110 --> 01:12:11,520
actually appeared on a National

1953
01:12:14,660 --> 01:12:12,120
Geographic

1954
01:12:17,690 --> 01:12:14,670
program that Joshua and I were both part

1955
01:12:20,150 --> 01:12:17,700
of was called para natural it was a year

1956
01:12:22,220 --> 01:12:20,160
ago this past October and we had we'd

1957
01:12:24,770 --> 01:12:22,230
gone down to Wiseman's view with this

1958
01:12:26,180 --> 01:12:24,780
National Geographic film crew and we

1959
01:12:27,470 --> 01:12:26,190
went up there of course you know how it

1960
01:12:29,420 --> 01:12:27,480
is when you do television you know we're

1961
01:12:32,270 --> 01:12:29,430
all wired up and we're you know carrying

1962
01:12:34,550 --> 01:12:32,280
more you know electromagnetic field

1963
01:12:35,870 --> 01:12:34,560
detection equipment and Geiger counters

1964
01:12:38,510 --> 01:12:35,880
and all kinds of stuff than are their

1965
01:12:40,940 --> 01:12:38,520
arms can almost carry but we trudged up

1966
01:12:42,320 --> 01:12:40,950
there and we had a fella named Dean war

1967
01:12:44,870 --> 01:12:42,330
Singh who is a specialist with

1968
01:12:46,880 --> 01:12:44,880
night-vision equipment and he came down

1969
01:12:48,380 --> 01:12:46,890
for that shoot to join us and we spent a

1970
01:12:51,050 --> 01:12:48,390
lot of time up there that not observing

1971
01:12:52,940 --> 01:12:51,060
now I saw a few things I even have some

1972
01:12:54,020 --> 01:12:52,950
photographs that we that we took

1973
01:12:56,240 --> 01:12:54,030
utilizing some of the night-vision

1974
01:12:57,380 --> 01:12:56,250
equipment that evening that I've posted

1975
01:12:58,790 --> 01:12:57,390
on the graylien report which I

1976
01:13:01,250 --> 01:12:58,800
personally do not believe are anything

1977
01:13:02,780 --> 01:13:01,260
but conventional aircraft that we

1978
01:13:04,610 --> 01:13:02,790
couldn't see with the naked eye because

1979
01:13:05,780 --> 01:13:04,620
of the cloud cover that evening however

1980
01:13:07,550 --> 01:13:05,790
the dim light that was present

1981
01:13:09,890 --> 01:13:07,560
nonetheless you know when when viewed

1982
01:13:11,840 --> 01:13:09,900
through the the the light enhancing

1983
01:13:13,400 --> 01:13:11,850
night-vision equipment that we were

1984
01:13:14,660 --> 01:13:13,410
using it allowed us to be able to see

1985
01:13:16,790 --> 01:13:14,670
these things much more clearly now the

1986
01:13:18,200 --> 01:13:16,800
the object in question that you're

1987
01:13:19,610 --> 01:13:18,210
talking about is very strange because

1988
01:13:22,100 --> 01:13:19,620
what had happened was we did have a

1989
01:13:24,550 --> 01:13:22,110
conventional handycam camcorder that was

1990
01:13:27,260 --> 01:13:24,560
hooked up to military-grade night-vision

1991
01:13:29,720 --> 01:13:27,270
goggles that we had obtained in the Dean

1992
01:13:32,120 --> 01:13:29,730
war Singh owned as we were filming this

1993
01:13:34,460 --> 01:13:32,130
I think was Hawksbill which is the the

1994
01:13:35,930 --> 01:13:34,470
large amount and outcropping adjacent to

1995
01:13:37,520 --> 01:13:35,940
what's called Table Rock both of which

1996
01:13:39,649 --> 01:13:37,530
are visible there from the Linville

1997
01:13:41,990 --> 01:13:39,659
Gorge it Wiseman's view where we were

1998
01:13:44,330 --> 01:13:42,000
this light appears and can move through

1999
01:13:46,640 --> 01:13:44,340
the air it's red and you see this thing

2000
01:13:47,810 --> 01:13:46,650
moving it's strange that it's red

2001
01:13:49,850 --> 01:13:47,820
because through the night vision

2002
01:13:51,890 --> 01:13:49,860
typically we don't see color in a

2003
01:13:53,839 --> 01:13:51,900
subsequent analysis that one of the

2004
01:13:56,030 --> 01:13:53,849
lemur investigators did we found that if

2005
01:13:58,520 --> 01:13:56,040
there is a very intense plasma that is

2006
01:14:00,680 --> 01:13:58,530
present sometimes yes indeed

2007
01:14:03,169 --> 01:14:00,690
the presence of a very intense plasma

2008
01:14:04,549 --> 01:14:03,179
Ken calls colored differentiations to

2009
01:14:06,799 --> 01:14:04,559
occur even visible through the night

2010
01:14:08,180 --> 01:14:06,809
vision I was very skeptical of that

2011
01:14:09,649 --> 01:14:08,190
footage myself and I will tell you that

2012
01:14:12,169 --> 01:14:09,659
and frankly I think that you know my

2013
01:14:13,160 --> 01:14:12,179
dissenting opinion about that caused a

2014
01:14:14,629 --> 01:14:13,170
little friction there for a while

2015
01:14:16,069 --> 01:14:14,639
between Joshua and I because you know I

2016
01:14:18,020 --> 01:14:16,079
mean hey we went up there we filmed

2017
01:14:19,370 --> 01:14:18,030
something it's an anomaly it certainly

2018
01:14:21,620 --> 01:14:19,380
is an anomaly because we don't know what

2019
01:14:23,390 --> 01:14:21,630
it is but being you know very rationally

2020
01:14:25,910 --> 01:14:23,400
skeptical like I am I looked at that and

2021
01:14:27,500 --> 01:14:25,920
I I was very discerning and I have was

2022
01:14:29,450 --> 01:14:27,510
quick to jump to any conclusions that we

2023
01:14:30,770 --> 01:14:29,460
had captured an anomaly in the sense

2024
01:14:32,600 --> 01:14:30,780
that this was one of the Brown Mountain

2025
01:14:34,490 --> 01:14:32,610
lights or some sort of a plasma now it

2026
01:14:35,600 --> 01:14:34,500
could be that and I can certainly tell

2027
01:14:37,790 --> 01:14:35,610
you that there were no red laser

2028
01:14:39,709 --> 01:14:37,800
pointers in use that evening I think

2029
01:14:41,209 --> 01:14:39,719
that there may have been I think that

2030
01:14:43,100 --> 01:14:41,219
the National Geographic folks may have

2031
01:14:45,080 --> 01:14:43,110
had some sort of a laser device but that

2032
01:14:46,250 --> 01:14:45,090
wasn't being used and the reason what we

2033
01:14:48,140 --> 01:14:46,260
weren't using at the time that we were

2034
01:14:50,270 --> 01:14:48,150
filming is because that kind of an item

2035
01:14:51,770 --> 01:14:50,280
only would have contaminated evidence

2036
01:14:53,930 --> 01:14:51,780
that we were hoping to try and in

2037
01:14:55,430 --> 01:14:53,940
capture sock and I can assure you that

2038
01:14:56,810 --> 01:14:55,440
that was not in use but yes I was

2039
01:14:58,520 --> 01:14:56,820
present the night that that video in

2040
01:15:00,439 --> 01:14:58,530
question was made and although you know

2041
01:15:00,950 --> 01:15:00,449
the verdict remains out I couldn't tell

2042
01:15:02,479 --> 01:15:00,960
you what it is

2043
01:15:06,280 --> 01:15:02,489
well it's the first time I've ever seen

2044
01:15:09,500 --> 01:15:06,290
a ruby red color in a night vision

2045
01:15:11,959 --> 01:15:09,510
footage that fact alone I I thought was

2046
01:15:14,180 --> 01:15:11,969
striking but yeah good good to know that

2047
01:15:16,549 --> 01:15:14,190
you were there and you can give us kind

2048
01:15:18,709 --> 01:15:16,559
of a blow-by-blow account of the the

2049
01:15:21,109 --> 01:15:18,719
actual trip that you guys took up there

2050
01:15:23,180 --> 01:15:21,119
more mysteries coming we have Mike de

2051
01:15:24,799 --> 01:15:23,190
Hanks the publication he has is called

2052
01:15:26,959 --> 01:15:24,809
the graylien report he also has a radio

2053
01:15:28,760 --> 01:15:26,969
show tell us about everybody I know from

2054
01:15:30,740 --> 01:15:28,770
North or South Carolina has a radio show

2055
01:15:32,990 --> 01:15:30,750
it's amazing I go on computer show

2056
01:15:35,120 --> 01:15:33,000
called Craig Crossman's computer America

2057
01:15:37,939 --> 01:15:35,130
and he has a home in North Carolina

2058
01:15:40,160 --> 01:15:37,949
there you go does it imagine that there

2059
01:15:49,160 --> 01:15:40,170
you go Chris O'Brien's the co-host I'm

2060
01:15:55,260 --> 01:15:52,530
Ray Perkins a reclusive veteran burned

2061
01:15:57,530 --> 01:15:55,270
out from the Gulf War lives tortured by

2062
01:15:59,910 --> 01:15:57,540
relentless perplexing nightmares

2063
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nightmares of a horrific battle in deep

2064
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space and of a mysterious woman

2065
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suffering an agony for her devastated

2066
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world a woman not yet born calling

2067
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across centuries to him then a

2068
01:16:14,760 --> 01:16:12,400
coincidence

2069
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2070
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alter the universe attack of the rocket

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2112
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2141
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comfortable most concealable holster on

2142
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the market today we offer a two week

2143
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free trial and a lifetime warranty visit

2144
01:19:17,990 --> 01:19:13,139
us at crossbreed holsters dot-com

2145
01:19:20,089 --> 01:19:18,000
don't forget crossbreed holsters dot-com

2146
01:19:21,620 --> 01:19:20,099
hi this is Ted Anderson have you ever

2147
01:19:23,299 --> 01:19:21,630
wondered why banks stock brokers

2148
01:19:25,120 --> 01:19:23,309
investment advisors won't talk about

2149
01:19:27,680 --> 01:19:25,130
gold IRAs they've been available since

2150
01:19:29,479 --> 01:19:27,690
1986 yet the financial industry won't

2151
01:19:30,109 --> 01:19:29,489
recognize the value of gold for your

2152
01:19:32,089 --> 01:19:30,119
retirement

2153
01:19:34,250 --> 01:19:32,099
gold has outperformed paper investments

2154
01:19:49,469 --> 01:19:34,260
yet no word about IRAs if you would like

2155
01:19:54,160 --> 01:19:51,689
America's number one source for

2156
01:19:55,089 --> 01:19:54,170
independent author radio for over a

2157
01:20:02,109 --> 01:19:55,099
decade

2158
01:20:04,029 --> 01:20:02,119
we are the gcn Radio Network this is

2159
01:20:06,009 --> 01:20:04,039
Leslie Kane and I'm with the Coalition

2160
01:20:09,879 --> 01:20:06,019
for freedom of information and you are

2161
01:20:11,140 --> 01:20:09,889
listening to the podcast we have Micah

2162
01:20:12,910 --> 01:20:11,150
Hanks joining us

2163
01:20:15,549 --> 01:20:12,920
Chrissa Brian's the co-host I'm gene

2164
01:20:18,310 --> 01:20:15,559
Steinberg you're in the para cast as we

2165
01:20:20,319 --> 01:20:18,320
wind down the second half of our session

2166
01:20:21,969 --> 01:20:20,329
with Micah so what is it that that

2167
01:20:24,879 --> 01:20:21,979
everybody has radio shows if they live

2168
01:20:26,109 --> 01:20:24,889
in North Carolina something like that

2169
01:20:28,299 --> 01:20:26,119
you know cuz here's the funny thing and

2170
01:20:29,799 --> 01:20:28,309
actually Chris and I became acquainted

2171
01:20:31,419 --> 01:20:29,809
when he contacted me through Facebook a

2172
01:20:32,979 --> 01:20:31,429
few years ago and his excellent book

2173
01:20:34,359 --> 01:20:32,989
stalking these tricksters had just come

2174
01:20:35,739 --> 01:20:34,369
out and he said hey I'll send you a

2175
01:20:37,839 --> 01:20:35,749
review copy and maybe you can get me on

2176
01:20:39,489 --> 01:20:37,849
Joshua's program because Joshua Warren

2177
01:20:40,899 --> 01:20:39,499
living here in Asheville has a Saturday

2178
01:20:43,299 --> 01:20:40,909
night radio program he does called

2179
01:20:44,859 --> 01:20:43,309
speaking of screens with Joshua P Warren

2180
01:20:46,739 --> 01:20:44,869
of course I was the producer of that

2181
01:20:49,060 --> 01:20:46,749
radio program for a number of years

2182
01:20:50,799 --> 01:20:49,070
there was an instance where and I would

2183
01:20:52,299 --> 01:20:50,809
fill in for Josh a lot on that program

2184
01:20:53,739 --> 01:20:52,309
when he would be out traveling sometimes

2185
01:20:55,719 --> 01:20:53,749
more than twice a month when he got

2186
01:20:57,279 --> 01:20:55,729
really busy in the summer months and I

2187
01:20:58,750 --> 01:20:57,289
contacted Chris and just said hey Chris

2188
01:21:00,489 --> 01:20:58,760
come on the program man I mean you know

2189
01:21:01,660 --> 01:21:00,499
I would be doing the interview but if

2190
01:21:03,189 --> 01:21:01,670
you want to come on we'll get you on the

2191
01:21:04,810 --> 01:21:03,199
show so that's how I became acquainted

2192
01:21:06,279 --> 01:21:04,820
with Chris we've been friends ever since

2193
01:21:08,169 --> 01:21:06,289
so although haven't been in touch that

2194
01:21:09,399 --> 01:21:08,179
much recently it's good to be

2195
01:21:10,830 --> 01:21:09,409
reacquainted with you and we'll

2196
01:21:13,750 --> 01:21:10,840
certainly stay in touch again after this

2197
01:21:14,950 --> 01:21:13,760
exactly yeah because I respect your work

2198
01:21:16,299 --> 01:21:14,960
a lot and I was reading your book the

2199
01:21:18,700 --> 01:21:16,309
other day thinking I need to touch base

2200
01:21:21,069 --> 01:21:18,710
and see how he's been so but that said

2201
01:21:22,060 --> 01:21:21,079
yeah absolutely but but that said of

2202
01:21:25,930 --> 01:21:22,070
course an see now look you're doing a

2203
01:21:26,830 --> 01:21:25,940
radio program also see we all do radio

2204
01:21:30,549 --> 01:21:26,840
but you don't think what's neat about

2205
01:21:33,520 --> 01:21:30,559
radio is to these by the way you think

2206
01:21:35,410 --> 01:21:33,530
you get over this disease oh yes well

2207
01:21:37,120 --> 01:21:35,420
there's you think you know what I have

2208
01:21:39,520 --> 01:21:37,130
the radio disease I've got to get over

2209
01:21:41,469 --> 01:21:39,530
this you know I got to get out there and

2210
01:21:43,930 --> 01:21:41,479
get a life and guess what happens you

2211
01:21:45,669 --> 01:21:43,940
get another program you do that's

2212
01:21:47,200 --> 01:21:45,679
exactly what's going on in it and with

2213
01:21:48,819 --> 01:21:47,210
my regard you know the situation was

2214
01:21:51,339 --> 01:21:48,829
that I filled in for a number of years

2215
01:21:53,350 --> 01:21:51,349
for Joshua when I worked in radio here

2216
01:21:56,080 --> 01:21:53,360
in the region and I formally left

2217
01:21:57,669 --> 01:21:56,090
working in in radio in this area but

2218
01:22:00,430 --> 01:21:57,679
then immediately after that I linked up

2219
01:22:01,980 --> 01:22:00,440
with a fellow out in Norman Oklahoma who

2220
01:22:03,630 --> 01:22:01,990
was hosting

2221
01:22:04,920 --> 01:22:03,640
a program for me called the Micah Hank

2222
01:22:06,900 --> 01:22:04,930
radio program there for a while and now

2223
01:22:08,280 --> 01:22:06,910
actually at present because again my

2224
01:22:10,710 --> 01:22:08,290
schedule is ridiculous

2225
01:22:12,690 --> 01:22:10,720
I had to you know essentially kind of

2226
01:22:14,010 --> 01:22:12,700
put a hiatus on that program because and

2227
01:22:16,050 --> 01:22:14,020
here's the issue you know when you're

2228
01:22:18,780 --> 01:22:16,060
doing a live radio program you know you

2229
01:22:21,030 --> 01:22:18,790
are bound to a certain timeslot on a

2230
01:22:22,560 --> 01:22:21,040
weekly or a daily basis at one point I

2231
01:22:25,110 --> 01:22:22,570
was offered you know to do that program

2232
01:22:26,550 --> 01:22:25,120
daily although I love radio enough to be

2233
01:22:28,770 --> 01:22:26,560
able to do that right now unfortunately

2234
01:22:29,970 --> 01:22:28,780
especially in these economically woeful

2235
01:22:32,010 --> 01:22:29,980
times I mean you know there's so much

2236
01:22:34,080 --> 01:22:32,020
else that has to occur in order to make

2237
01:22:35,760 --> 01:22:34,090
ends meet and keep bread on the table is

2238
01:22:36,960 --> 01:22:35,770
you guys know and as you'll be hearing

2239
01:22:39,090 --> 01:22:36,970
so the listeners will be hearing you

2240
01:22:41,130 --> 01:22:39,100
know with some music's music that will

2241
01:22:43,440 --> 01:22:41,140
be sampled during the program I perform

2242
01:22:44,850 --> 01:22:43,450
in a couple of bluegrass bands in the

2243
01:22:46,320 --> 01:22:44,860
Western North Carolina region and I

2244
01:22:48,870 --> 01:22:46,330
travel throughout South Carolina and

2245
01:22:50,250 --> 01:22:48,880
down to Georgia and Tennessee all units

2246
01:22:51,660 --> 01:22:50,260
surrounding States performing on the

2247
01:22:53,310 --> 01:22:51,670
weekends and things and so it's become

2248
01:22:56,190 --> 01:22:53,320
increasingly difficult for me to commit

2249
01:22:57,660 --> 01:22:56,200
to a single timeslot for a radio program

2250
01:22:59,190 --> 01:22:57,670
unless of course you know I get offered

2251
01:23:01,110 --> 01:22:59,200
something that pays the big bucks that's

2252
01:23:02,580 --> 01:23:01,120
what we all want but in the meantime if

2253
01:23:05,430 --> 01:23:02,590
they waive a check you'll say you know

2254
01:23:07,050 --> 01:23:05,440
why doubt take a few years off well what

2255
01:23:09,630 --> 01:23:07,060
it is is if they waive a check I can I

2256
01:23:11,070 --> 01:23:09,640
can commit to giving one day a week that

2257
01:23:12,270 --> 01:23:11,080
you know I would do that which I would

2258
01:23:13,950 --> 01:23:12,280
love to do I mean you know as a matter

2259
01:23:15,660 --> 01:23:13,960
of fact I mean I've got a you know a

2260
01:23:18,690 --> 01:23:15,670
broadcast facility here you know that

2261
01:23:21,450 --> 01:23:18,700
that's suitable for a you know streaming

2262
01:23:23,640 --> 01:23:21,460
audio on the web right now and I've got

2263
01:23:25,170 --> 01:23:23,650
this wonderful MX lv 900 microphone that

2264
01:23:27,600 --> 01:23:25,180
I'm talking into right now which helps

2265
01:23:31,290 --> 01:23:27,610
you know accentuate my my natural base

2266
01:23:34,440 --> 01:23:31,300
enos of course we have a natural evasion

2267
01:23:36,690 --> 01:23:34,450
as it gets deeper as we get older I'm so

2268
01:23:41,670 --> 01:23:36,700
deep it gets gruff like we're speaking

2269
01:23:42,900 --> 01:23:41,680
like crackin couldn't get worse though I

2270
01:23:52,220 --> 01:23:42,910
mean it could go the opposite direction

2271
01:23:58,170 --> 01:23:55,620
leads to hate hate leads to the dark

2272
01:24:03,030 --> 01:23:58,180
side but Master Yoda I'm not afraid mmm

2273
01:24:05,850 --> 01:24:03,040
you will be terrifying in more ways than

2274
01:24:07,620 --> 01:24:05,860
you know yes certainly but but either

2275
01:24:09,930 --> 01:24:07,630
way the Micah Hank's program hopefully

2276
01:24:11,430 --> 01:24:09,940
will be soon revived as a podcast and

2277
01:24:13,410 --> 01:24:11,440
the primary reason for that is because

2278
01:24:15,240 --> 01:24:13,420
you know there's such demand for

2279
01:24:16,830 --> 01:24:15,250
podcasts these days when I worked in Ray

2280
01:24:18,420 --> 01:24:16,840
oh this is something ingenious you that

2281
01:24:20,400 --> 01:24:18,430
you hear about this a lot also you know

2282
01:24:22,890 --> 01:24:20,410
doing hosting two programs one of them

2283
01:24:24,420 --> 01:24:22,900
being oriented around technology you

2284
01:24:26,610 --> 01:24:24,430
know in radio for years we fought

2285
01:24:28,260 --> 01:24:26,620
against the fact that people had I I pod

2286
01:24:30,000 --> 01:24:28,270
you know and and then there's also

2287
01:24:32,490 --> 01:24:30,010
satellite radio and things like that

2288
01:24:33,720 --> 01:24:32,500
there are so many alternatives to just

2289
01:24:35,070 --> 01:24:33,730
turning on the radio and listening and

2290
01:24:36,360 --> 01:24:35,080
the great thing about radio is you know

2291
01:24:38,370 --> 01:24:36,370
if you're driving in your car you can

2292
01:24:39,780 --> 01:24:38,380
pop that on and it's free but a lot of

2293
01:24:41,220 --> 01:24:39,790
people with the accessibility of

2294
01:24:42,900 --> 01:24:41,230
information and technology and they

2295
01:24:44,700 --> 01:24:42,910
built to download audio a lot more

2296
01:24:46,950 --> 01:24:44,710
people these days are downloading stuff

2297
01:24:48,600 --> 01:24:46,960
burnin get on CDs or putting it on their

2298
01:24:50,550 --> 01:24:48,610
iPods or their iPads for that matter

2299
01:24:51,780 --> 01:24:50,560
well their cell phones heck you know you

2300
01:24:54,480 --> 01:24:51,790
can put this stuff on your smart phones

2301
01:24:56,790 --> 01:24:54,490
now and you can take audio with you that

2302
01:24:58,380 --> 01:24:56,800
if it was recorded some given time you

2303
01:24:59,970 --> 01:24:58,390
can listen to it at a later date at your

2304
01:25:01,950 --> 01:24:59,980
leisure and the number one question

2305
01:25:03,330 --> 01:25:01,960
every time I'd get on the air and do a

2306
01:25:04,740 --> 01:25:03,340
radio show people would email me

2307
01:25:06,480 --> 01:25:04,750
constantly saying yeah it didn't feel

2308
01:25:08,190 --> 01:25:06,490
like tuning in man had I was having a

2309
01:25:10,380 --> 01:25:08,200
barbecue with the kids but where's the

2310
01:25:11,640 --> 01:25:10,390
podcast available for download well when

2311
01:25:13,530 --> 01:25:11,650
you're doing radio of course you know

2312
01:25:15,270 --> 01:25:13,540
you can use all the I'll be copyright

2313
01:25:16,860 --> 01:25:15,280
you know copyrighted music that you want

2314
01:25:18,810 --> 01:25:16,870
to if you've got the certification to be

2315
01:25:20,970 --> 01:25:18,820
able to do that which we we had through

2316
01:25:22,470 --> 01:25:20,980
DCI X at the station that was carrying

2317
01:25:23,880 --> 01:25:22,480
the program if you're doing a podcast

2318
01:25:25,170 --> 01:25:23,890
sometimes that stuff can get a little

2319
01:25:28,020 --> 01:25:25,180
tricky and everything but nonetheless

2320
01:25:29,670 --> 01:25:28,030
you know if you if you you know if you

2321
01:25:31,200 --> 01:25:29,680
go about it legally and responsibly and

2322
01:25:34,080 --> 01:25:31,210
you can provide content that people can

2323
01:25:35,520 --> 01:25:34,090
download and and enjoy and the demand

2324
01:25:36,900 --> 01:25:35,530
for that these days is so great that I

2325
01:25:39,060 --> 01:25:36,910
think that you know once once I get

2326
01:25:40,740 --> 01:25:39,070
things back together it's going to be

2327
01:25:42,240 --> 01:25:40,750
the Mokka hank's podcast or the graylien

2328
01:25:44,130 --> 01:25:42,250
report podcast where you know people

2329
01:25:45,450 --> 01:25:44,140
can't have something to download and

2330
01:25:47,460 --> 01:25:45,460
take with them there is something to be

2331
01:25:49,800 --> 01:25:47,470
said about that and we have an

2332
01:25:51,420 --> 01:25:49,810
interesting setup here with our show the

2333
01:25:54,000 --> 01:25:51,430
Eric a started out being available

2334
01:25:56,670 --> 01:25:54,010
online from our site downloadable as a

2335
01:25:59,490 --> 01:25:56,680
podcast through iTunes etc for your iPad

2336
01:26:01,410 --> 01:25:59,500
your iPhone even your Android phone we

2337
01:26:03,210 --> 01:26:01,420
don't mention that yeah then we joined

2338
01:26:05,130 --> 01:26:03,220
the gcn network and we have the

2339
01:26:07,110 --> 01:26:05,140
double-triple distribution we are on

2340
01:26:09,630 --> 01:26:07,120
traditional radio growing number

2341
01:26:12,060 --> 01:26:09,640
stations were hurt on their site so if

2342
01:26:14,640 --> 01:26:12,070
you go to GCN live.com you could hear

2343
01:26:17,100 --> 01:26:14,650
the show then in fact when you hear the

2344
01:26:18,690 --> 01:26:17,110
live player on our site you basically go

2345
01:26:20,430 --> 01:26:18,700
into their site and then you can check

2346
01:26:23,700 --> 01:26:20,440
out their other shows you can also have

2347
01:26:25,500 --> 01:26:23,710
a iPhone application an Android

2348
01:26:27,420 --> 01:26:25,510
application that you can download and

2349
01:26:28,299 --> 01:26:27,430
hear any of their network shows so we're

2350
01:26:31,270 --> 01:26:28,309
available

2351
01:26:33,310 --> 01:26:31,280
traditional terrestrial radio online and

2352
01:26:33,819 --> 01:26:33,320
maybe soon satellite we'll see what

2353
01:26:37,839 --> 01:26:33,829
happens

2354
01:26:39,010 --> 01:26:37,849
good luck with that also everywhere it

2355
01:26:40,779 --> 01:26:39,020
needs to be everywhere this is a great

2356
01:26:42,549 --> 01:26:40,789
show and I can say that because you know

2357
01:26:44,319 --> 01:26:42,559
I'm not a host I've been on before in

2358
01:26:45,850 --> 01:26:44,329
the past but I enjoy the program whether

2359
01:26:47,470 --> 01:26:45,860
or not I'm a guest I think it's

2360
01:26:49,149 --> 01:26:47,480
fantastic and I certainly wish you guys

2361
01:26:50,770 --> 01:26:49,159
the very best with that thank you thank

2362
01:26:52,689 --> 01:26:50,780
you very much let's get back to the

2363
01:26:55,270 --> 01:26:52,699
strange the unknown the mysterious and

2364
01:26:57,850 --> 01:26:55,280
all that kind of creature I've been just

2365
01:27:01,000 --> 01:26:57,860
dying to ask you about this wonderful

2366
01:27:02,410 --> 01:27:01,010
book that came out a little over a year

2367
01:27:05,439 --> 01:27:02,420
ago that you wrote called magic

2368
01:27:07,870 --> 01:27:05,449
mysticism and the molecule really right

2369
01:27:10,870 --> 01:27:07,880
down my alley as you know I think it's

2370
01:27:12,669 --> 01:27:10,880
it's a it's an excellent work and I

2371
01:27:14,770 --> 01:27:12,679
really would like to dive into this

2372
01:27:18,100 --> 01:27:14,780
subject a little bit because I think

2373
01:27:20,560 --> 01:27:18,110
that it exemplifies what what I think

2374
01:27:22,600 --> 01:27:20,570
needs to happen in the field of

2375
01:27:24,339 --> 01:27:22,610
paranormal investigation in research and

2376
01:27:27,370 --> 01:27:24,349
that is we need to get people like

2377
01:27:33,189 --> 01:27:27,380
yourself who are open-minded and willing

2378
01:27:36,250 --> 01:27:33,199
to look at folklore and cultural the

2379
01:27:39,250 --> 01:27:36,260
cultural side of this this whole subject

2380
01:27:42,459 --> 01:27:39,260
and and really look at it with a new

2381
01:27:45,310 --> 01:27:42,469
fresh pair of eyes and maybe a new a new

2382
01:27:47,439 --> 01:27:45,320
prescription pair of glasses and your

2383
01:27:49,959 --> 01:27:47,449
book I think your book does an excellent

2384
01:27:53,049 --> 01:27:49,969
job in that in that regard I think it's

2385
01:27:55,779 --> 01:27:53,059
it's very timely I do recommend it let's

2386
01:27:57,490 --> 01:27:55,789
talk about it a little bit how did you

2387
01:28:01,169 --> 01:27:57,500
first of all give us a little overview

2388
01:28:04,839 --> 01:28:01,179
of of the book and what prompted you to

2389
01:28:07,029 --> 01:28:04,849
actually write it and and then also

2390
01:28:08,979 --> 01:28:07,039
comment about be very upfront about your

2391
01:28:13,660 --> 01:28:08,989
own experimentation in this realm and

2392
01:28:16,089 --> 01:28:13,670
and how those efforts dovetail into your

2393
01:28:18,339 --> 01:28:16,099
per your paranormal investigation work

2394
01:28:21,310 --> 01:28:18,349
yeah those are very very good questions

2395
01:28:22,810 --> 01:28:21,320
and thank you for that Chris with magic

2396
01:28:25,450 --> 01:28:22,820
mysticism the molecule the funny thing

2397
01:28:27,609 --> 01:28:25,460
is that I grew up studying the the

2398
01:28:31,180 --> 01:28:27,619
writing of the likes of Charles fort

2399
01:28:34,089 --> 01:28:31,190
I loved Ivan T Sanderson and of course

2400
01:28:36,879 --> 01:28:34,099
much later you know I learned of you

2401
01:28:38,589 --> 01:28:36,889
know the multitude of you know fine

2402
01:28:40,120 --> 01:28:38,599
researchers out there and and

2403
01:28:41,830 --> 01:28:40,130
chroniclers of this kind of data

2404
01:28:44,200 --> 01:28:41,840
Loren Coleman who has probably been one

2405
01:28:46,300 --> 01:28:44,210
of the most influential on my own riding

2406
01:28:48,459 --> 01:28:46,310
and discriminating research you know not

2407
01:28:49,750 --> 01:28:48,469
just saying okay this person says this

2408
01:28:51,760 --> 01:28:49,760
and so I'm gonna take that at face value

2409
01:28:53,290 --> 01:28:51,770
I really learned from Loren Coleman to

2410
01:28:54,490 --> 01:28:53,300
ask difficult questions and it's funny

2411
01:28:55,750 --> 01:28:54,500
because you know now I'm friends with so

2412
01:28:57,610 --> 01:28:55,760
many of these people Lauren emailed me

2413
01:28:58,090 --> 01:28:57,620
this morning we've been good friends for

2414
01:29:00,220 --> 01:28:58,100
years

2415
01:29:01,590 --> 01:29:00,230
Brad stager you know sends me a lot of

2416
01:29:04,120 --> 01:29:01,600
his books to read and things like that

2417
01:29:05,709 --> 01:29:04,130
and what's funny is that the kinds of

2418
01:29:07,419 --> 01:29:05,719
books that Lauren or the the Brad

2419
01:29:09,640 --> 01:29:07,429
Steiger would write you typically deal

2420
01:29:12,729 --> 01:29:09,650
with you know cryptozoological creatures

2421
01:29:14,860 --> 01:29:12,739
or maybe UFOs and you know things like

2422
01:29:16,540 --> 01:29:14,870
that or ghosts I enjoy these books

2423
01:29:18,189 --> 01:29:16,550
immensely and I'm really bad to dive

2424
01:29:19,930 --> 01:29:18,199
into three or four of them at one time

2425
01:29:21,970 --> 01:29:19,940
partially because I just enjoy reading

2426
01:29:23,290 --> 01:29:21,980
this sort of thing and the other and

2427
01:29:24,669 --> 01:29:23,300
also because you know I make a living

2428
01:29:27,550 --> 01:29:24,679
writing and studying these sorts of

2429
01:29:29,140 --> 01:29:27,560
things but also because because I review

2430
01:29:30,610 --> 01:29:29,150
these books for folks and post these

2431
01:29:32,950 --> 01:29:30,620
reviews at various different websites

2432
01:29:34,510 --> 01:29:32,960
and things like that including get into

2433
01:29:37,479 --> 01:29:34,520
that in a moment those reviews or those

2434
01:29:39,399 --> 01:29:37,489
reports so much more to come Micah Hanks

2435
01:29:41,979 --> 01:29:39,409
is the guest the co-host is Chris

2436
01:29:45,690 --> 01:29:41,989
O'Brien I'm gene Steinberg you're in the

2437
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[Music]

2539
01:34:22,699 --> 01:34:20,699
music from our guests Micah Hanks

2540
01:34:24,290 --> 01:34:22,709
alright let's continue with all the

2541
01:34:26,779 --> 01:34:24,300
stuff that you've investigated and we've

2542
01:34:29,120 --> 01:34:26,789
covered cryptids weird creatures stuff

2543
01:34:31,729 --> 01:34:29,130
like that now any of the stuff have a

2544
01:34:33,229 --> 01:34:31,739
UFO outer space interdimensional

2545
01:34:35,389 --> 01:34:33,239
connection do you think well yeah I

2546
01:34:37,009 --> 01:34:35,399
certainly do and kind of going back also

2547
01:34:40,069 --> 01:34:37,019
to what Chris had asked about asked

2548
01:34:41,989 --> 01:34:40,079
about my book that the book deals with a

2549
01:34:44,109 --> 01:34:41,999
lot of that and and frankly I think that

2550
01:34:47,239 --> 01:34:44,119
when you leave the key word there is

2551
01:34:49,489 --> 01:34:47,249
interdimensional gene because I think

2552
01:34:51,469 --> 01:34:49,499
that without getting into a really

2553
01:34:53,899 --> 01:34:51,479
really really really in-depth discussion

2554
01:34:55,639 --> 01:34:53,909
of physics and the like you know some of

2555
01:34:57,229 --> 01:34:55,649
this phenomenon is so strange that we

2556
01:35:00,139 --> 01:34:57,239
can only be interpreted as one of two

2557
01:35:01,159 --> 01:35:00,149
things you know cultural interpretation

2558
01:35:04,189 --> 01:35:01,169
of what really would amount to

2559
01:35:06,529 --> 01:35:04,199
psychological aberrations or the actual

2560
01:35:08,810 --> 01:35:06,539
valid and real physical at least in some

2561
01:35:11,330 --> 01:35:08,820
sense presence of something that is an

2562
01:35:12,589 --> 01:35:11,340
interdimensional presence you know I was

2563
01:35:14,209 --> 01:35:12,599
mentioning I think Loren Coleman and

2564
01:35:16,189 --> 01:35:14,219
Brad stager during the last segment and

2565
01:35:18,830 --> 01:35:16,199
studying their research a lot of these

2566
01:35:20,389 --> 01:35:18,840
reports and these researchers you know

2567
01:35:22,639 --> 01:35:20,399
deal in case studies which are

2568
01:35:24,859 --> 01:35:22,649
absolutely relevant and necessary in the

2569
01:35:26,449 --> 01:35:24,869
field and so you know everyone wants to

2570
01:35:28,790 --> 01:35:26,459
try and make their own claim their own

2571
01:35:30,709 --> 01:35:28,800
stake in in in this brand of research

2572
01:35:33,319 --> 01:35:30,719
and you know and then try and hopefully

2573
01:35:35,989 --> 01:35:33,329
come up with new exciting information or

2574
01:35:37,759 --> 01:35:35,999
very least different interpretations of

2575
01:35:40,250 --> 01:35:37,769
existing information you know that tries

2576
01:35:41,659 --> 01:35:40,260
to better understand the reality of the

2577
01:35:43,520 --> 01:35:41,669
situation that's almost impossible

2578
01:35:45,799 --> 01:35:43,530
because you know we as humans really

2579
01:35:47,750 --> 01:35:45,809
can't even define reality and anymore

2580
01:35:49,609 --> 01:35:47,760
you know in addition to kind of looking

2581
01:35:51,889 --> 01:35:49,619
at things in a folkloric sense also look

2582
01:35:54,469 --> 01:35:51,899
at things very philosophically you know

2583
01:35:56,359 --> 01:35:54,479
what beyond the scope of the five senses

2584
01:35:58,189 --> 01:35:56,369
you know and what they tell us as

2585
01:36:00,529 --> 01:35:58,199
individuals what do we really know what

2586
01:36:03,229 --> 01:36:00,539
can we discern what does logic you know

2587
01:36:04,819 --> 01:36:03,239
through observance tell us about this

2588
01:36:06,889 --> 01:36:04,829
strange phenomenon we know that people

2589
01:36:09,020 --> 01:36:06,899
are really good liars and they're really

2590
01:36:10,459 --> 01:36:09,030
bored or that something at least in a

2591
01:36:12,739 --> 01:36:10,469
number of circumstances you know

2592
01:36:14,089 --> 01:36:12,749
reported every year every day around the

2593
01:36:16,639 --> 01:36:14,099
world for that matter you know something

2594
01:36:18,169 --> 01:36:16,649
does occur several some things how does

2595
01:36:19,669 --> 01:36:18,179
it pertain to UFOs aliens and

2596
01:36:21,020 --> 01:36:19,679
interdimensional as well it's funny

2597
01:36:22,729 --> 01:36:21,030
because you know I've studied UFOs

2598
01:36:24,589 --> 01:36:22,739
aliens interdimentional script or

2599
01:36:26,450 --> 01:36:24,599
zoological monstrosities my entire life

2600
01:36:28,190 --> 01:36:26,460
you'd think I'd sit down and write about

2601
01:36:30,110 --> 01:36:28,200
book about Bigfoot or UFOs and when I

2602
01:36:31,760 --> 01:36:30,120
wrote magic mysticism and the molecule I

2603
01:36:33,740 --> 01:36:31,770
don't think I was conscious which is

2604
01:36:35,900 --> 01:36:33,750
funny because I sum up the the subject

2605
01:36:37,490 --> 01:36:35,910
matter in that book is centering around

2606
01:36:39,920 --> 01:36:37,500
primarily altered states of

2607
01:36:41,959 --> 01:36:39,930
consciousness and what causes those and

2608
01:36:43,280 --> 01:36:41,969
what they mean I don't think I was

2609
01:36:46,340 --> 01:36:43,290
conscious at the time that I begun

2610
01:36:48,110 --> 01:36:46,350
writing that book where my mind and my

2611
01:36:49,580 --> 01:36:48,120
interpretation of strange phenomenon was

2612
01:36:51,170 --> 01:36:49,590
actually going it was almost as though

2613
01:36:53,900 --> 01:36:51,180
it was the subconscious was leading

2614
01:36:56,360 --> 01:36:53,910
itself and now I'm seeing you know so

2615
01:36:57,979 --> 01:36:56,370
many startling perspectives with regard

2616
01:36:59,720 --> 01:36:57,989
to all this I think that you know as

2617
01:37:01,400 --> 01:36:59,730
I've mentioned several times that there

2618
01:37:02,780 --> 01:37:01,410
is something folkloric about this and

2619
01:37:05,330 --> 01:37:02,790
that there's something that is based

2620
01:37:06,800 --> 01:37:05,340
largely on cultural interpretations of

2621
01:37:09,080 --> 01:37:06,810
phenomenon you know as seen over time

2622
01:37:11,780 --> 01:37:09,090
and and you know basically the meaning

2623
01:37:13,280 --> 01:37:11,790
that we attribute to that whether or not

2624
01:37:15,140 --> 01:37:13,290
that meaning actually exists in a

2625
01:37:17,600 --> 01:37:15,150
conventional or very least a humanistic

2626
01:37:19,940 --> 01:37:17,610
sense on the other hand I think that

2627
01:37:22,130 --> 01:37:19,950
there are actual physical manifestations

2628
01:37:23,540 --> 01:37:22,140
that occur the only way that some of

2629
01:37:25,100 --> 01:37:23,550
these could be explained well maybe not

2630
01:37:27,709 --> 01:37:25,110
the only way I think that certainly

2631
01:37:29,420 --> 01:37:27,719
though that you know a more realistic

2632
01:37:31,580 --> 01:37:29,430
way that we could explain for instance

2633
01:37:34,400 --> 01:37:31,590
some of the erratic behavior of UFOs and

2634
01:37:36,650 --> 01:37:34,410
things like that could be in terms of an

2635
01:37:39,170 --> 01:37:36,660
interdimensional phenomenon I love the

2636
01:37:40,880 --> 01:37:39,180
old the old explanation Carl Sagan used

2637
01:37:42,290 --> 01:37:40,890
this a lot the description of flatland

2638
01:37:45,020 --> 01:37:42,300
where we have a two dimensional plane

2639
01:37:46,670 --> 01:37:45,030
and imagining how two dimensional beings

2640
01:37:48,650 --> 01:37:46,680
would interpret three dimensional

2641
01:37:49,820 --> 01:37:48,660
creature as it intercepted their second

2642
01:37:51,350 --> 01:37:49,830
dimensional flatland

2643
01:37:53,510 --> 01:37:51,360
another great example is a

2644
01:37:55,040 --> 01:37:53,520
horseshoe-shaped creature intersecting a

2645
01:37:56,570 --> 01:37:55,050
one dimensional plane imagine just a

2646
01:37:58,100 --> 01:37:56,580
straight line where a one dimensional

2647
01:37:59,990 --> 01:37:58,110
creature bounces back and forth along

2648
01:38:01,640 --> 01:38:00,000
that line they've got a really lame kind

2649
01:38:03,350 --> 01:38:01,650
of kind of boring existence and then a

2650
01:38:04,729 --> 01:38:03,360
horseshoe-shaped creature intersects

2651
01:38:06,820 --> 01:38:04,739
he's a two-dimensional creature he has

2652
01:38:09,290 --> 01:38:06,830
both length and height will say

2653
01:38:11,060 --> 01:38:09,300
dimensional qualities to him and as he

2654
01:38:12,890 --> 01:38:11,070
intersects that one dimensional plane we

2655
01:38:15,590 --> 01:38:12,900
see that the horseshoe shape intersects

2656
01:38:17,450 --> 01:38:15,600
that one line in two places how would

2657
01:38:19,790 --> 01:38:17,460
the one dimensional creature interpret

2658
01:38:21,830 --> 01:38:19,800
that does he see two separate instances

2659
01:38:23,600 --> 01:38:21,840
of something appearing before him when

2660
01:38:25,070 --> 01:38:23,610
we know that we can see from it from a

2661
01:38:27,800 --> 01:38:25,080
three dimensional perspective this is a

2662
01:38:30,530 --> 01:38:27,810
2d creature that's shaped in such a way

2663
01:38:32,209 --> 01:38:30,540
that he intersects that one line in two

2664
01:38:34,940 --> 01:38:32,219
instances so what are we dealing with

2665
01:38:37,280 --> 01:38:34,950
you know are UFOs akin to something like

2666
01:38:38,959 --> 01:38:37,290
that we're in a third dimensional state

2667
01:38:41,000 --> 01:38:38,969
of being like we are some

2668
01:38:43,700 --> 01:38:41,010
from another dimension literally could

2669
01:38:46,549 --> 01:38:43,710
intercept our reality and appear as

2670
01:38:47,959 --> 01:38:46,559
something maybe that is not exactly what

2671
01:38:49,430 --> 01:38:47,969
it is it's only how we were able to

2672
01:38:51,259 --> 01:38:49,440
interpret it from our from our

2673
01:38:53,810 --> 01:38:51,269
perspective to illustrate this there's

2674
01:38:55,759 --> 01:38:53,820
that famous case of dr. X which I think

2675
01:38:57,469 --> 01:38:55,769
was from Italy in the well I think was

2676
01:38:59,299 --> 01:38:57,479
the nineteen fifties or sixties the

2677
01:39:01,089 --> 01:38:59,309
individual was apparently healed after

2678
01:39:03,680 --> 01:39:01,099
he was kind of blasted by a ray of light

2679
01:39:06,319 --> 01:39:03,690
he was healed of a war injury when when

2680
01:39:07,790 --> 01:39:06,329
this beam of light blasted him from a

2681
01:39:10,189 --> 01:39:07,800
flying saucer that appeared but when he

2682
01:39:11,930 --> 01:39:10,199
stepped out onto his balcony responding

2683
01:39:13,370 --> 01:39:11,940
to a light that he had seen through the

2684
01:39:15,020 --> 01:39:13,380
blinds in the distance he steps out on

2685
01:39:17,060 --> 01:39:15,030
his back reat balcony

2686
01:39:18,799 --> 01:39:17,070
he describes seeing two flying saucers

2687
01:39:21,140 --> 01:39:18,809
two disc-shaped craft hovering

2688
01:39:23,810 --> 01:39:21,150
side-by-side and they come together they

2689
01:39:25,910 --> 01:39:23,820
merge into one and then they kind of

2690
01:39:27,410 --> 01:39:25,920
come forward and it tilts up on its axis

2691
01:39:29,450 --> 01:39:27,420
and blast him with this light and takes

2692
01:39:31,939 --> 01:39:29,460
off it's very famous case and there were

2693
01:39:34,520 --> 01:39:31,949
photographs taken of these strange marks

2694
01:39:36,200 --> 01:39:34,530
that appeared on the doctors body in the

2695
01:39:38,060 --> 01:39:36,210
aftermath of this sighting he also

2696
01:39:39,680 --> 01:39:38,070
suffered from another a number of

2697
01:39:41,689 --> 01:39:39,690
strange hallucinations where you know he

2698
01:39:43,700 --> 01:39:41,699
he was followed by government in you

2699
01:39:45,200 --> 01:39:43,710
know you're maybe not government but

2700
01:39:46,430 --> 01:39:45,210
essentially the traditionally MIB type

2701
01:39:47,899 --> 01:39:46,440
of characters who introduced him to

2702
01:39:49,580 --> 01:39:47,909
alien beings and all these kinds of

2703
01:39:51,859 --> 01:39:49,590
things and he would have bouts of memory

2704
01:39:53,629 --> 01:39:51,869
loss all kinds of strange things that

2705
01:39:54,979 --> 01:39:53,639
weren't entirely physical but I thought

2706
01:39:57,140 --> 01:39:54,989
that it was interesting that this report

2707
01:39:58,819 --> 01:39:57,150
described how a an alien craft literally

2708
01:40:00,709 --> 01:39:58,829
appeared as two separate vehicles that

2709
01:40:02,810 --> 01:40:00,719
merged together into one and it reminded

2710
01:40:04,219 --> 01:40:02,820
me very much of that idea of you know

2711
01:40:06,469 --> 01:40:04,229
one dimensional creature meeting a

2712
01:40:08,209 --> 01:40:06,479
single object on a two dimension from a

2713
01:40:10,279 --> 01:40:08,219
two dimensional plane and interpreting

2714
01:40:11,989 --> 01:40:10,289
it is two things two creatures may be

2715
01:40:14,060 --> 01:40:11,999
existing in two separate spaces when in

2716
01:40:15,770 --> 01:40:14,070
reality we know it's just one maybe a

2717
01:40:17,569 --> 01:40:15,780
lot of the things that we observe UFO

2718
01:40:20,660 --> 01:40:17,579
craft doing the erratic behavior the

2719
01:40:22,669 --> 01:40:20,670
zigzagging the tremendous travel of you

2720
01:40:24,049 --> 01:40:22,679
know at tremendous speeds blinking out

2721
01:40:26,270 --> 01:40:24,059
and disappearing and then reappearing in

2722
01:40:28,549 --> 01:40:26,280
the same spot you know minutes if not

2723
01:40:30,739 --> 01:40:28,559
you know hours later all these sorts of

2724
01:40:33,560 --> 01:40:30,749
strange things may be indicative of the

2725
01:40:35,569 --> 01:40:33,570
way that UFOs behave as they are

2726
01:40:37,399 --> 01:40:35,579
intercepting our reality our third

2727
01:40:39,290 --> 01:40:37,409
dimensional state of being so I

2728
01:40:40,669 --> 01:40:39,300
certainly think that you know it's hard

2729
01:40:41,989 --> 01:40:40,679
for people to grasp that these things

2730
01:40:44,049 --> 01:40:41,999
behave in act the way that they do and

2731
01:40:46,189 --> 01:40:44,059
the strange things and often almost

2732
01:40:48,469 --> 01:40:46,199
nonsensical behavior attributed to flood

2733
01:40:50,479 --> 01:40:48,479
to a flying saucers and the like it

2734
01:40:52,910 --> 01:40:50,489
could be very much indicative of

2735
01:40:55,160 --> 01:40:52,920
something interdimensional I could

2736
01:40:56,840 --> 01:40:55,170
and another thing that kind of springs

2737
01:40:58,760 --> 01:40:56,850
to mind when you mentioned the dr. X

2738
01:41:02,110 --> 01:40:58,770
case which I think Jacques ballet did a

2739
01:41:04,550 --> 01:41:02,120
very good job investigating that I think

2740
01:41:06,280 --> 01:41:04,560
I'm not sure which book it's in it might

2741
01:41:09,650 --> 01:41:06,290
be in confrontations there was

2742
01:41:12,830 --> 01:41:09,660
confrontation mentions yeah another

2743
01:41:14,720 --> 01:41:12,840
thing is that we do tend to kind of

2744
01:41:16,490 --> 01:41:14,730
revert to primal images and that's one

2745
01:41:18,530 --> 01:41:16,500
of the things that spurred me on in my

2746
01:41:20,660 --> 01:41:18,540
research with the trickster phenomenon

2747
01:41:22,070 --> 01:41:20,670
is I think human beings when they when

2748
01:41:23,870 --> 01:41:22,080
they're faced with something

2749
01:41:26,780 --> 01:41:23,880
inexplicable that's totally out of the

2750
01:41:30,050 --> 01:41:26,790
realm of understanding or even the realm

2751
01:41:32,780 --> 01:41:30,060
of experience we tend to revert to two

2752
01:41:35,810 --> 01:41:32,790
more primal symbols and we tend to get

2753
01:41:37,850 --> 01:41:35,820
archetypal in how we language these

2754
01:41:40,040 --> 01:41:37,860
things and the work of Terence Mckenna I

2755
01:41:43,040 --> 01:41:40,050
think should be noted here he was

2756
01:41:46,190 --> 01:41:43,050
someone that was very very keen on how

2757
01:41:50,480 --> 01:41:46,200
we language inexplicable experiences

2758
01:41:54,470 --> 01:41:50,490
whether induced by dimethyltryptamine or

2759
01:41:57,290 --> 01:41:54,480
LSD or psilocybin or possibly which will

2760
01:41:59,870 --> 01:41:57,300
magic these are all areas that that are

2761
01:42:02,810 --> 01:41:59,880
I think very important for our

2762
01:42:07,070 --> 01:42:02,820
conversation here about your book and I

2763
01:42:09,380 --> 01:42:07,080
I think that these primal images tend to

2764
01:42:11,570 --> 01:42:09,390
color our languaging in in Terence

2765
01:42:14,870 --> 01:42:11,580
Mckenna I think has done a masterful job

2766
01:42:16,310 --> 01:42:14,880
in before he died in in looking at the

2767
01:42:18,380 --> 01:42:16,320
importance of our language ain't

2768
01:42:22,310 --> 01:42:18,390
oftentimes it's it's practically

2769
01:42:24,050 --> 01:42:22,320
impossible to put into words these types

2770
01:42:26,030 --> 01:42:24,060
of experiences and and being an

2771
01:42:28,400 --> 01:42:26,040
investigator out in the field I from

2772
01:42:30,380 --> 01:42:28,410
time to time I would I would have a case

2773
01:42:33,590 --> 01:42:30,390
where a person really was at a loss for

2774
01:42:35,660 --> 01:42:33,600
words and sometimes the the types of

2775
01:42:37,280 --> 01:42:35,670
descriptions that would come forth even

2776
01:42:39,140 --> 01:42:37,290
though they made sense to the person and

2777
01:42:42,620 --> 01:42:39,150
they made sense in the conversation they

2778
01:42:45,650 --> 01:42:42,630
were nonsensical and it's very difficult

2779
01:42:48,530 --> 01:42:45,660
for someone who is shall we say a little

2780
01:42:51,700 --> 01:42:48,540
bit more closed minded or skeptical to

2781
01:42:54,440 --> 01:42:51,710
look at this type of languaging and and

2782
01:42:55,820 --> 01:42:54,450
do anything but just you know and just

2783
01:42:57,380 --> 01:42:55,830
throw the baby out with the bathwater

2784
01:42:59,020 --> 01:42:57,390
and say well this person obviously has

2785
01:43:00,310 --> 01:42:59,030
some issues here and

2786
01:43:03,190 --> 01:43:00,320
there's nothing to see here let's move

2787
01:43:07,000 --> 01:43:03,200
along I think your book does a very good

2788
01:43:09,540 --> 01:43:07,010
job of examining potential altered

2789
01:43:11,860 --> 01:43:09,550
states of consciousness and how these

2790
01:43:16,300 --> 01:43:11,870
what the connecting points are between

2791
01:43:17,710 --> 01:43:16,310
unusual experiences and induced states

2792
01:43:20,170 --> 01:43:17,720
of consciousness do you want to address

2793
01:43:21,880 --> 01:43:20,180
that a little bit absolutely yeah

2794
01:43:23,740 --> 01:43:21,890
you know the book is that as the title

2795
01:43:25,840 --> 01:43:23,750
describes magic mysticism of the

2796
01:43:27,970 --> 01:43:25,850
molecule it deals with three you know

2797
01:43:29,710 --> 01:43:27,980
approaches to the study of inducing

2798
01:43:31,810 --> 01:43:29,720
altered states you know what you know

2799
01:43:33,430 --> 01:43:31,820
maybe folk traditions and cultures you

2800
01:43:35,170 --> 01:43:33,440
know especially archaic cultures would

2801
01:43:37,120 --> 01:43:35,180
have called magic and of course that

2802
01:43:39,340 --> 01:43:37,130
brings to mind that quote you know from

2803
01:43:41,200 --> 01:43:39,350
Arthur Clarke that you know any

2804
01:43:43,450 --> 01:43:41,210
significant you know significantly

2805
01:43:45,970 --> 01:43:43,460
advanced technology to a lesser advanced

2806
01:43:48,400 --> 01:43:45,980
civilization could be perceived and

2807
01:43:49,540 --> 01:43:48,410
viewed as magic you know that that comes

2808
01:43:51,910 --> 01:43:49,550
right back to what I was talking about

2809
01:43:53,650 --> 01:43:51,920
UFOs a moment ago so magic in that sense

2810
01:43:55,600 --> 01:43:53,660
you know is how many archaic traditions

2811
01:43:57,130 --> 01:43:55,610
and in ancient cultures and even maybe

2812
01:43:58,630 --> 01:43:57,140
some modern cultures you know that are

2813
01:44:00,940 --> 01:43:58,640
you know more primitive in their

2814
01:44:03,250 --> 01:44:00,950
approaches you know you know Shawn

2815
01:44:05,260 --> 01:44:03,260
shamanism and whatnot but I kind of draw

2816
01:44:07,900 --> 01:44:05,270
a distinction there because there's

2817
01:44:10,720 --> 01:44:07,910
there's the magic the mysticism which is

2818
01:44:12,790 --> 01:44:10,730
you know not just you know meditation

2819
01:44:14,440 --> 01:44:12,800
and things like you'd you know study in

2820
01:44:16,270 --> 01:44:14,450
the East but even you know modern

2821
01:44:18,370 --> 01:44:16,280
mysticism I take a lot of you know time

2822
01:44:20,620 --> 01:44:18,380
to look at you know 20th century

2823
01:44:22,900 --> 01:44:20,630
Christian mysticism and held on to all

2824
01:44:25,570 --> 01:44:22,910
that stuff 20th century Christian

2825
01:44:28,270 --> 01:44:25,580
mysticism Jewish mysticism I have to ask

2826
01:44:30,610 --> 01:44:28,280
you about that more Micah Hanks joins us

2827
01:44:36,230 --> 01:44:30,620
co-host is Chris O'Brien I'm gene

2828
01:44:41,900 --> 01:44:39,220
[Music]

2829
01:44:43,970 --> 01:44:41,910
hi this is Ted Anderson if you'd like to

2830
01:44:46,310 --> 01:44:43,980
listen to GCN programs on the goal I

2831
01:44:48,470 --> 01:44:46,320
have great news GCM has created a Droid

2832
01:44:51,020 --> 01:44:48,480
and iPhone application and it's free

2833
01:44:52,910 --> 01:44:51,030
just as easy as going to GC and live.com

2834
01:44:54,500 --> 01:44:52,920
click on the banner and download before

2835
01:44:56,780 --> 01:44:54,510
you know it you'll be listening to your

2836
01:44:58,340 --> 01:44:56,790
favorite hard-hitting GCN shows live

2837
01:45:01,130 --> 01:44:58,350
around two men right on your Droid or

2838
01:45:03,050 --> 01:45:01,140
iPhone 24/7 and on the go so download

2839
01:45:05,150 --> 01:45:03,060
the Droid an iPhone app free by clicking

2840
01:45:06,800 --> 01:45:05,160
on the banner at juicy and live.com

2841
01:45:09,439 --> 01:45:06,810
thanks again for listening to GC and

2842
01:45:11,450 --> 01:45:09,449
live.com again that's juicy and live.com

2843
01:45:13,520 --> 01:45:11,460
we the people grow cotton wheat fabric

2844
01:45:15,140 --> 01:45:13,530
engraving can bed strips and fibers to

2845
01:45:16,910 --> 01:45:15,150
protect from counterfeit and carding to

2846
01:45:17,360 --> 01:45:16,920
a private bank having it led back at

2847
01:45:19,130 --> 01:45:17,370
interest

2848
01:45:20,990 --> 01:45:19,140
forcing taxes to service debt this

2849
01:45:22,430 --> 01:45:21,000
capitalism or was jefferson correct when

2850
01:45:24,080 --> 01:45:22,440
stating a central bank issuing the

2851
01:45:25,220 --> 01:45:24,090
public currency is a greater menace to

2852
01:45:26,780 --> 01:45:25,230
the liberties of the people than a

2853
01:45:28,040 --> 01:45:26,790
standing army today anderson i'm placing

2854
01:45:30,140 --> 01:45:28,050
a free silver dollar in a book that

2855
01:45:33,410 --> 01:45:30,150
explains our monetary system call for

2856
01:45:36,500 --> 01:45:33,420
your copy 800 686 to 237 it's time to

2857
01:45:45,200 --> 01:45:36,510
understand the system call 866 to 237

2858
01:45:47,120 --> 01:45:45,210
that's 800 686 to 237 welcome back to

2859
01:45:50,479 --> 01:45:47,130
the pair cast the gold standard of

2860
01:45:54,120 --> 01:45:50,489
paranormal radio and now here's gene

2861
01:45:59,790 --> 01:45:55,700
[Music]

2862
01:46:01,530 --> 01:45:59,800
back with Micah Hanks our guest for this

2863
01:46:05,160 --> 01:46:01,540
week on the podcast with Jean and Chris

2864
01:46:07,560 --> 01:46:05,170
we were focusing on folklore modern and

2865
01:46:09,960 --> 01:46:07,570
ancient folklore Christian folklore

2866
01:46:11,850 --> 01:46:09,970
Christian mysteries about Jewish

2867
01:46:13,290 --> 01:46:11,860
mysteries are there any to talk about oh

2868
01:46:15,180 --> 01:46:13,300
yes certainly you know we were talking

2869
01:46:17,760 --> 01:46:15,190
about the mysticism section in my book

2870
01:46:20,340 --> 01:46:17,770
magic mysticism of the molecule the

2871
01:46:23,130 --> 01:46:20,350
reason I took time to you know to

2872
01:46:24,450 --> 01:46:23,140
discuss mysticism and how that relates

2873
01:46:26,690 --> 01:46:24,460
to altered states of consciousness is

2874
01:46:29,100 --> 01:46:26,700
because there are so many reports of of

2875
01:46:31,290 --> 01:46:29,110
interesting for Tiana and and the

2876
01:46:32,970 --> 01:46:31,300
unexplained in mystic tradition

2877
01:46:34,230 --> 01:46:32,980
traditions you know from people around

2878
01:46:36,090 --> 01:46:34,240
the world there are cultural and

2879
01:46:37,410 --> 01:46:36,100
religious interpretations of things

2880
01:46:38,760 --> 01:46:37,420
which you know by all intents and

2881
01:46:40,440 --> 01:46:38,770
purposes could be described in

2882
01:46:42,690 --> 01:46:40,450
themselves as strange phenomenon I

2883
01:46:45,000 --> 01:46:42,700
mention Christian mysticism you know and

2884
01:46:47,280 --> 01:46:45,010
I use this a specific example you know

2885
01:46:50,100 --> 01:46:47,290
the Apostle Paul and his road to

2886
01:46:51,570 --> 01:46:50,110
Damascus mask you see you know that was

2887
01:46:53,100 --> 01:46:51,580
an ecstatic experience you know where

2888
01:46:54,930 --> 01:46:53,110
all of a sudden he was literally blinded

2889
01:46:57,210 --> 01:46:54,940
and he described rising into the third

2890
01:46:58,590 --> 01:46:57,220
heaven and meeting Christ you know it

2891
01:46:59,700 --> 01:46:58,600
very interesting and that's very similar

2892
01:47:01,170 --> 01:46:59,710
to you know some of the kinds of things

2893
01:47:03,600 --> 01:47:01,180
that later have been described in the

2894
01:47:06,570 --> 01:47:03,610
books of Terence Mckenna and you know

2895
01:47:07,860 --> 01:47:06,580
even dr. Rick Strassman and his DMT

2896
01:47:09,150 --> 01:47:07,870
studies and when it comes to Jewish

2897
01:47:10,380 --> 01:47:09,160
mysticism you know I've studied all

2898
01:47:12,540 --> 01:47:10,390
obviously one of my favorite favorite

2899
01:47:14,400 --> 01:47:12,550
legends truly that I've loved and

2900
01:47:16,560 --> 01:47:14,410
enjoyed for years and that is intrigued

2901
01:47:19,860 --> 01:47:16,570
and fascinated me is that involving the

2902
01:47:22,320 --> 01:47:19,870
the so-called Golem of Prague where the

2903
01:47:24,810 --> 01:47:22,330
the rabbi the Mahal of Prague in the I

2904
01:47:27,930 --> 01:47:24,820
guess that was probably the the 16th

2905
01:47:30,480 --> 01:47:27,940
century he you know he had allegedly

2906
01:47:31,830 --> 01:47:30,490
brought to life a man from mud as

2907
01:47:33,930 --> 01:47:31,840
described in the Hebrew book of

2908
01:47:35,490 --> 01:47:33,940
formation and this is you know going

2909
01:47:37,170 --> 01:47:35,500
back you know even in Christian

2910
01:47:39,750 --> 01:47:37,180
tradition you know the Bible you know

2911
01:47:43,230 --> 01:47:39,760
the description of Adam being created

2912
01:47:45,030 --> 01:47:43,240
you know was kind of the the the

2913
01:47:47,940 --> 01:47:45,040
earliest example you know this this

2914
01:47:49,530 --> 01:47:47,950
creation of a man from mud the maha all

2915
01:47:51,120 --> 01:47:49,540
according to and again this is

2916
01:47:53,250 --> 01:47:51,130
interpreted as a legend although you

2917
01:47:55,470 --> 01:47:53,260
know some you know mystic traditions

2918
01:47:56,850 --> 01:47:55,480
except this is being a true you know

2919
01:48:00,090 --> 01:47:56,860
occurrence that actually happened the

2920
01:48:02,700 --> 01:48:00,100
Mahalo frog allegedly created a man from

2921
01:48:04,290 --> 01:48:02,710
from mud and yo se Lee I believe was his

2922
01:48:06,720 --> 01:48:04,300
name of the Golem of Prague and he was

2923
01:48:07,240 --> 01:48:06,730
created to defend you know Jewish people

2924
01:48:09,310 --> 01:48:07,250
who were being

2925
01:48:10,990 --> 01:48:09,320
persecuted there in Prague toward the

2926
01:48:13,240 --> 01:48:11,000
end of the sixteenth century if I

2927
01:48:16,300 --> 01:48:13,250
remember correctly and in that tradition

2928
01:48:18,190 --> 01:48:16,310
this golem you know was brought to life

2929
01:48:20,080 --> 01:48:18,200
through and I found this so fascinating

2930
01:48:21,940 --> 01:48:20,090
it's not so much literally creating a

2931
01:48:23,500 --> 01:48:21,950
man from mud and in the writing

2932
01:48:25,420 --> 01:48:23,510
something on his forehead you know and

2933
01:48:27,310 --> 01:48:25,430
bringing him to life some traditions

2934
01:48:29,460 --> 01:48:27,320
hold that you write the word I think

2935
01:48:31,690 --> 01:48:29,470
it's email is how to pronounced on a

2936
01:48:33,640 --> 01:48:31,700
actually I think the word is mish but

2937
01:48:35,320 --> 01:48:33,650
you would write on a piece of paper and

2938
01:48:37,510 --> 01:48:35,330
put it in the golems mouth or write it

2939
01:48:39,490 --> 01:48:37,520
on his forehead then you add the that

2940
01:48:41,560 --> 01:48:39,500
you letter email if I'm pronouncing this

2941
01:48:44,200 --> 01:48:41,570
correct and my father's the the Hebrew

2942
01:48:45,100 --> 01:48:44,210
scholar I'm you know trying to hammer my

2943
01:48:47,350 --> 01:48:45,110
way through it here but that would

2944
01:48:49,330 --> 01:48:47,360
create as opposed to the word life death

2945
01:48:50,830 --> 01:48:49,340
and then hence deactivate the golem

2946
01:48:53,470 --> 01:48:50,840
according to what tradition that you

2947
01:48:55,390 --> 01:48:53,480
follow of its creation but it's

2948
01:48:57,730 --> 01:48:55,400
interesting because the the actual

2949
01:49:00,610 --> 01:48:57,740
description of the creation of the golem

2950
01:49:02,200 --> 01:49:00,620
was not so much the literal making of a

2951
01:49:04,030 --> 01:49:02,210
man of mud and then you know turning a

2952
01:49:06,040 --> 01:49:04,040
switch on his back and he gets up and

2953
01:49:08,800 --> 01:49:06,050
starts walking around a living automaton

2954
01:49:10,030 --> 01:49:08,810
this process had more to do with and as

2955
01:49:11,800 --> 01:49:10,040
described I believe in the book of

2956
01:49:14,620 --> 01:49:11,810
formation the creation of any golem is

2957
01:49:17,230 --> 01:49:14,630
an intense a very intense and focused

2958
01:49:21,220 --> 01:49:17,240
meditation that creates kind of an

2959
01:49:23,350 --> 01:49:21,230
ethereal form of a being in the in the

2960
01:49:25,930 --> 01:49:23,360
spiritual sense that then takes

2961
01:49:28,300 --> 01:49:25,940
residence in the body made of mud and

2962
01:49:30,340 --> 01:49:28,310
brings it to life and when I came across

2963
01:49:32,530 --> 01:49:30,350
that I was fascinated because in the

2964
01:49:35,080 --> 01:49:32,540
Eastern traditions too but typically I

2965
01:49:37,240 --> 01:49:35,090
think a Tulpa that's right the toddler

2966
01:49:39,630 --> 01:49:37,250
Tulpa you know which you know Alexandra

2967
01:49:43,600 --> 01:49:39,640
David Nail and and others wrote about

2968
01:49:45,220 --> 01:49:43,610
from the from the the Tibetan mystic

2969
01:49:46,900 --> 01:49:45,230
tradition and whatnot and John keel

2970
01:49:48,570 --> 01:49:46,910
wrote about tapas even in the Mothman

2971
01:49:50,440 --> 01:49:48,580
Prophecies that may have been a

2972
01:49:52,000 --> 01:49:50,450
contemporary reference you know that

2973
01:49:53,800 --> 01:49:52,010
began in the NAT sixties and seventies I

2974
01:49:55,750 --> 01:49:53,810
mean Western for Tianna and literature

2975
01:49:57,280 --> 01:49:55,760
and whatnot but the topic concept is the

2976
01:50:00,370 --> 01:49:57,290
exact same sort of thing you intensely

2977
01:50:02,590 --> 01:50:00,380
focus and meditate on the creation of a

2978
01:50:04,080 --> 01:50:02,600
god or a deity or an individual and you

2979
01:50:06,430 --> 01:50:04,090
literally create a physical

2980
01:50:08,140 --> 01:50:06,440
manifestation of that and the funny

2981
01:50:10,180 --> 01:50:08,150
thing is is that you know this is not a

2982
01:50:12,430 --> 01:50:10,190
new concept when when introduced into

2983
01:50:15,130 --> 01:50:12,440
the the realm of 40 anima and the

2984
01:50:16,980 --> 01:50:15,140
unexplained I think Jerome Clarke and in

2985
01:50:18,840 --> 01:50:16,990
Loren Coleman I think in the

2986
01:50:21,300 --> 01:50:18,850
where was that book beyond the

2987
01:50:22,530 --> 01:50:21,310
unidentified published you know there

2988
01:50:23,790 --> 01:50:22,540
have been a number of people who over

2989
01:50:26,310 --> 01:50:23,800
the years have supposed that may be

2990
01:50:27,600 --> 01:50:26,320
psychological projections and topas and

2991
01:50:29,670 --> 01:50:27,610
things like that could account for some

2992
01:50:31,680 --> 01:50:29,680
of the strange phenomena that we see and

2993
01:50:33,590 --> 01:50:31,690
and that certainly seems to be worthy of

2994
01:50:35,820 --> 01:50:33,600
consideration due to the interactive

2995
01:50:38,160 --> 01:50:35,830
qualities that are often associated with

2996
01:50:39,690 --> 01:50:38,170
with strange phenomenon so often people

2997
01:50:41,970 --> 01:50:39,700
describe being able to either

2998
01:50:43,410 --> 01:50:41,980
communicate with lights and things that

2999
01:50:45,360 --> 01:50:43,420
they see or they feel that they're able

3000
01:50:46,590 --> 01:50:45,370
to telepathically communicate I've even

3001
01:50:48,390 --> 01:50:46,600
heard stories of people saying when they

3002
01:50:50,340 --> 01:50:48,400
saw a Bigfoot that these things could

3003
01:50:51,990 --> 01:50:50,350
communicate telepathically I've also

3004
01:50:54,000 --> 01:50:52,000
heard a number of instances where people

3005
01:50:55,410 --> 01:50:54,010
say that the Sasquatch is appearing they

3006
01:50:58,500 --> 01:50:55,420
see it it's flesh and blood it's walking

3007
01:50:59,880 --> 01:50:58,510
away and it vanishes disappears into

3008
01:51:03,360 --> 01:50:59,890
thin air you know

3009
01:51:04,830 --> 01:51:03,370
these reports often disclosed laugh when

3010
01:51:07,770 --> 01:51:04,840
they hear these kinds of reports I've

3011
01:51:09,180 --> 01:51:07,780
been told talking face to face with so

3012
01:51:10,500 --> 01:51:09,190
many people you know who have become

3013
01:51:11,700 --> 01:51:10,510
friends of mine who have told me that

3014
01:51:14,490 --> 01:51:11,710
they've had this kind of thing happen

3015
01:51:15,900 --> 01:51:14,500
that I literally you know have had this

3016
01:51:17,310 --> 01:51:15,910
step back and say you know I can either

3017
01:51:19,050 --> 01:51:17,320
discount all these like everyone else

3018
01:51:21,360 --> 01:51:19,060
chooses to do or I can try and look for

3019
01:51:23,580 --> 01:51:21,370
meaning beneath that and and it seems

3020
01:51:24,720 --> 01:51:23,590
that whatever way you want to choose to

3021
01:51:27,150 --> 01:51:24,730
look at it whether it be through you

3022
01:51:29,610 --> 01:51:27,160
know ancient magical practices esoteric

3023
01:51:32,310 --> 01:51:29,620
mystical practices or you know the the

3024
01:51:35,910 --> 01:51:32,320
what I call the full throttle in induced

3025
01:51:37,500 --> 01:51:35,920
kind of induced kind of you know

3026
01:51:40,680 --> 01:51:37,510
experiences which I talked about in the

3027
01:51:42,120 --> 01:51:40,690
molecule section of my book we uh those

3028
01:51:43,470 --> 01:51:42,130
those are the really fun ones and I

3029
01:51:45,540 --> 01:51:43,480
think that's what Chris is wanting to

3030
01:51:48,240 --> 01:51:45,550
get around and talk about you know I

3031
01:51:49,830 --> 01:51:48,250
think I agree let's we only have less

3032
01:51:51,840 --> 01:51:49,840
than an hour left with this episode of

3033
01:51:56,360 --> 01:51:51,850
the para cast I think we should move

3034
01:52:01,140 --> 01:51:56,370
head first full steam ahead

3035
01:52:04,530 --> 01:52:01,150
will throb hammer down no time like the

3036
01:52:07,080 --> 01:52:06,180
well he's long as we're not up on a

3037
01:52:10,020 --> 01:52:07,090
break we'll go ahead and we'll dive into

3038
01:52:11,640 --> 01:52:10,030
it then I propose a toast but three

3039
01:52:13,050 --> 01:52:11,650
minutes away you have a bit of time yeah

3040
01:52:17,060 --> 01:52:13,060
well you know the mouth of the south is

3041
01:52:21,630 --> 01:52:19,440
mouth of the south just wanted to

3042
01:52:23,190 --> 01:52:21,640
clarify that can anyone can anyone

3043
01:52:28,530 --> 01:52:23,200
imagine why they would call me something

3044
01:52:30,180 --> 01:52:28,540
like that I just know the third section

3045
01:52:30,630 --> 01:52:30,190
of the book magic mysticism in the

3046
01:52:34,740 --> 01:52:30,640
molecule

3047
01:52:37,590 --> 01:52:34,750
specifically a referencing here our

3048
01:52:40,140 --> 01:52:37,600
entheogenic molecules things like

3049
01:52:41,490 --> 01:52:40,150
dimethyltryptamine and also adrenochrome

3050
01:52:43,680 --> 01:52:41,500
and other things believed to have

3051
01:52:46,370 --> 01:52:43,690
hallucinogenic properties I talked a

3052
01:52:49,080 --> 01:52:46,380
good bit about you know certain certain

3053
01:52:52,410 --> 01:52:49,090
variations of what's called ayahuasca

3054
01:52:54,930 --> 01:52:52,420
that's a brewed beverage a tea sort of

3055
01:52:57,180 --> 01:52:54,940
that's made in South America which

3056
01:53:00,600 --> 01:52:57,190
clearly you know not all kinds of

3057
01:53:02,160 --> 01:53:00,610
ayahuasca are are in theo genic and will

3058
01:53:03,810 --> 01:53:02,170
produce hallucinations but a number of

3059
01:53:06,270 --> 01:53:03,820
them do and the reason why is because

3060
01:53:10,260 --> 01:53:06,280
the liana plant which is you know akin

3061
01:53:12,710 --> 01:53:10,270
to all plants that are all recipes of

3062
01:53:15,240 --> 01:53:12,720
the ayahuasca brew works in conjunction

3063
01:53:17,970 --> 01:53:15,250
chemically with with ingredients in

3064
01:53:19,350 --> 01:53:17,980
certain other regional variations of

3065
01:53:21,750 --> 01:53:19,360
that recipe and they produce a

3066
01:53:23,670 --> 01:53:21,760
psychedelic compound dimethyltryptamine

3067
01:53:25,200 --> 01:53:23,680
well actually they don't produce it what

3068
01:53:27,120 --> 01:53:25,210
they do is they allow it to be you know

3069
01:53:29,640 --> 01:53:27,130
consumed in the body and not be broken

3070
01:53:31,560 --> 01:53:29,650
down when consumed orally like that and

3071
01:53:33,600 --> 01:53:31,570
therefore you it induces hallucinations

3072
01:53:35,250 --> 01:53:33,610
if you were just to take DMT for

3073
01:53:36,750 --> 01:53:35,260
instance and eat it as I understand it

3074
01:53:38,130 --> 01:53:36,760
that that wouldn't have an effect on you

3075
01:53:40,160 --> 01:53:38,140
you know you have to you have to have

3076
01:53:42,600 --> 01:53:40,170
the what is it isn't beta-carboline

3077
01:53:44,220 --> 01:53:42,610
mono a mean oxidase inhibitors that

3078
01:53:46,140 --> 01:53:44,230
would keep it from the Meo inhibitor

3079
01:53:47,850 --> 01:53:46,150
right yeah that allows the the body to

3080
01:53:49,110 --> 01:53:47,860
absorb it yeah right exactly and of

3081
01:53:51,120 --> 01:53:49,120
course I go into all that in my book you

3082
01:53:53,100 --> 01:53:51,130
know talking about that so people who

3083
01:53:54,780 --> 01:53:53,110
have these experiences point being well

3084
01:53:56,910 --> 01:53:54,790
even talk about you know ivy Hoffman and

3085
01:53:59,270 --> 01:53:56,920
some of the early LSD experiences and

3086
01:54:01,440 --> 01:53:59,280
things like that often do describe

3087
01:54:03,930 --> 01:54:01,450
encounters with for instance one of the

3088
01:54:06,630 --> 01:54:03,940
well-known archetypes of the of the

3089
01:54:08,880 --> 01:54:06,640
Psychonauts is the praying mantis being

3090
01:54:11,610 --> 01:54:08,890
interestingly a lot of people who have

3091
01:54:14,100 --> 01:54:11,620
you know UFO abduction stories also

3092
01:54:16,170 --> 01:54:14,110
recount meeting these praying mantis

3093
01:54:17,520 --> 01:54:16,180
beings and nine times out of 10 an

3094
01:54:19,710 --> 01:54:17,530
especially if you want a good primer on

3095
01:54:21,570 --> 01:54:19,720
this read dr. Rick Strassman book DMT

3096
01:54:23,940 --> 01:54:21,580
the spirit molecule where many of the

3097
01:54:25,380 --> 01:54:23,950
participants in that DEA approved study

3098
01:54:27,240 --> 01:54:25,390
in the 1990s where they were

3099
01:54:29,340 --> 01:54:27,250
administered dimethyltryptamine they

3100
01:54:31,350 --> 01:54:29,350
said this experience we would go into

3101
01:54:32,250 --> 01:54:31,360
this technological environment we would

3102
01:54:34,200 --> 01:54:32,260
see beings

3103
01:54:35,550 --> 01:54:34,210
it was so real you couldn't tell us if

3104
01:54:37,410 --> 01:54:35,560
we hadn't known we were using a

3105
01:54:39,960 --> 01:54:37,420
substance that what we had experienced

3106
01:54:42,210 --> 01:54:39,970
was not in fact real and valid and so

3107
01:54:44,350 --> 01:54:42,220
it's it's very interesting because again

3108
01:54:46,570 --> 01:54:44,360
altered states of consciousness seemed

3109
01:54:48,880 --> 01:54:46,580
people to this area where they reach a

3110
01:54:51,100 --> 01:54:48,890
state a place some call it that

3111
01:54:52,480 --> 01:54:51,110
strangely is inhabited they aren't like

3112
01:54:54,310 --> 01:54:52,490
us but they're enough like us that we

3113
01:54:56,050 --> 01:54:54,320
seem to have something to share some

3114
01:54:58,480 --> 01:54:56,060
sort of information some sort of an

3115
01:55:00,100 --> 01:54:58,490
exchange that's supposedly occurring and

3116
01:55:02,740 --> 01:55:00,110
whether that be through Jewish mysticism

3117
01:55:05,290 --> 01:55:02,750
or Christian mysticism magical rituals

3118
01:55:06,730 --> 01:55:05,300
and in practices or you know inducing

3119
01:55:08,140 --> 01:55:06,740
altered states of consciousness which

3120
01:55:09,760 --> 01:55:08,150
isn't something I'm telling people to go

3121
01:55:11,560 --> 01:55:09,770
out and do it can be very very dangerous

3122
01:55:12,850 --> 01:55:11,570
but I talked about it in the book

3123
01:55:14,290 --> 01:55:12,860
because people have done this and this

3124
01:55:15,970 --> 01:55:14,300
is another way that they've reached

3125
01:55:17,860 --> 01:55:15,980
these states where they meet these

3126
01:55:19,660 --> 01:55:17,870
beings there seems to be some sort of a

3127
01:55:21,730 --> 01:55:19,670
singularity some sort of a similarity

3128
01:55:23,440 --> 01:55:21,740
between these experiences and what

3129
01:55:25,660 --> 01:55:23,450
people are describing well let's do the

3130
01:55:27,580 --> 01:55:25,670
break right now we have Micah Hanks I'm

3131
01:55:30,300 --> 01:55:27,590
gene Steinberg the co-host is Chris

3132
01:55:36,520 --> 01:55:30,310
O'Brien in the para cast

3133
01:55:41,640 --> 01:55:38,930
[Music]

3134
01:55:43,710 --> 01:55:41,650
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3135
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3155
01:56:44,430 --> 01:56:42,090
www.att.com/biz john Swinson at -

3156
01:56:46,410 --> 01:56:44,440
resources and I want to address a couple

3157
01:56:47,910 --> 01:56:46,420
of issues that I hear about daily and

3158
01:56:50,130 --> 01:56:47,920
we're talking about gold and silver

3159
01:56:52,650 --> 01:56:50,140
first is there anything to suggest that

3160
01:56:55,260 --> 01:56:52,660
sunny skies are just ahead we continue

3161
01:56:57,300 --> 01:56:55,270
to print fiat dollars inflation worsens

3162
01:56:59,370 --> 01:56:57,310
there's civil unrest around the world

3163
01:57:01,860 --> 01:56:59,380
and the demand for gold and silver has

3164
01:57:03,750 --> 01:57:01,870
never ever been higher next if you heard

3165
01:57:04,530 --> 01:57:03,760
that possessing metals is a complicated

3166
01:57:06,180 --> 01:57:04,540
process

3167
01:57:08,640 --> 01:57:06,190
I assure you that whether we're

3168
01:57:10,170 --> 01:57:08,650
discussing a direct purchase or an IRA

3169
01:57:12,840 --> 01:57:10,180
rollover this is a simple

3170
01:57:15,090 --> 01:57:12,850
straightforward transaction this is all

3171
01:57:17,850 --> 01:57:15,100
about protecting your assets and frankly

3172
01:57:20,310 --> 01:57:17,860
what are your options stock market real

3173
01:57:24,360 --> 01:57:20,320
estate metal certificates I don't think

3174
01:57:26,430 --> 01:57:24,370
so please call me 806 eight six two two

3175
01:57:28,920 --> 01:57:26,440
three seven extension one two eight I

3176
01:57:48,100 --> 01:57:28,930
promise a casual conversation no

3177
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3178
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3179
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3180
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3183
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3184
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3186
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3187
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3188
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3189
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3190
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3191
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3192
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3197
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3198
01:58:42,640 --> 01:58:40,369
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3199
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provided excellent advice for all those

3200
01:58:47,410 --> 01:58:44,900
interested in practical economics and

3201
01:58:49,300 --> 01:58:47,420
sound money it's certainly worth reading

3202
01:58:51,939 --> 01:58:49,310
that's what congressman ron paul said

3203
01:58:53,859 --> 01:58:51,949
about cha-ching wisdom 123 practical

3204
01:58:56,290 --> 01:58:53,869
universal truths about money the new

3205
01:58:57,609 --> 01:58:56,300
blog by dr. David berry the cool part of

3206
01:58:59,590 --> 01:58:57,619
this book certainly it'll speak to you

3207
01:59:01,180 --> 01:58:59,600
personally your life your lifestyle your

3208
01:59:03,580 --> 01:59:01,190
your money your investments but it also

3209
01:59:05,109 --> 01:59:03,590
can be generalized into the nation

3210
01:59:06,760 --> 01:59:05,119
what's going on as a nation we do these

3211
01:59:09,160 --> 01:59:06,770
same things personally that we do as a

3212
01:59:10,540 --> 01:59:09,170
nation dr. Berry's book touching wisdom

3213
01:59:12,550 --> 01:59:10,550
presents many facets of your

3214
01:59:14,649 --> 01:59:12,560
relationship with the once almighty

3215
01:59:16,720 --> 01:59:14,659
dollar and how current national and

3216
01:59:18,669 --> 01:59:16,730
international politics affect your daily

3217
01:59:20,770 --> 01:59:18,679
life some of the other things are about

3218
01:59:22,570 --> 01:59:20,780
that they're not just economic their

3219
01:59:24,040 --> 01:59:22,580
philosophical there's psychology

3220
01:59:26,109 --> 01:59:24,050
involved in this book there's philosophy

3221
01:59:29,229 --> 01:59:26,119
and wellness book read touching wisdom

3222
01:59:33,729 --> 01:59:29,239
by dr. David berry only 995 available at

3223
01:59:38,680 --> 01:59:33,739
cha-ching wisdom calm vet CH a CH I ng

3224
01:59:42,260 --> 01:59:38,690
wisdom calm cha-ching wisdom calm

3225
01:59:45,470 --> 01:59:42,270
the gcn radio network providing the

3226
01:59:52,260 --> 01:59:45,480
world with hard-hitting talk radio G C

3227
01:59:56,820 --> 01:59:54,990
we want to hear from you if you have a

3228
02:00:00,600 --> 01:59:56,830
comment or question about the pair cast

3229
02:00:04,140 --> 02:00:00,610
send it to News at Lapera cast calm

3230
02:00:05,730 --> 02:00:04,150
that's news at the Peres cast calm and

3231
02:00:08,070 --> 02:00:05,740
don't forget to visit our famous pair

3232
02:00:11,070 --> 02:00:08,080
cast community forums at forum dot

3233
02:00:17,610 --> 02:00:11,080
Lapera cast com get in on all the action

3234
02:00:19,140 --> 02:00:17,620
at forum dot the para cast comm there

3235
02:00:21,420 --> 02:00:19,150
can be no question that you're in the

3236
02:00:22,980 --> 02:00:21,430
para cast although Chris wondered for a

3237
02:00:24,960 --> 02:00:22,990
moment because we were exploring other

3238
02:00:27,150 --> 02:00:24,970
realities and sometimes having a

3239
02:00:28,680 --> 02:00:27,160
flashback you see the flashbacks when

3240
02:00:31,500 --> 02:00:28,690
you'll explore the other realities and

3241
02:00:33,660 --> 02:00:31,510
sometimes things become very strange

3242
02:00:36,480 --> 02:00:33,670
sometimes well there's an episode by the

3243
02:00:38,610 --> 02:00:36,490
way on Fringe this past week where

3244
02:00:41,580 --> 02:00:38,620
several of the lead characters take LSD

3245
02:00:43,950 --> 02:00:41,590
in order to meet another reality - I

3246
02:00:45,780 --> 02:00:43,960
don't have become cartoon characters

3247
02:00:47,970 --> 02:00:45,790
don't ask me to explain you have to

3248
02:00:49,350 --> 02:00:47,980
watch the show this is the para cast I'm

3249
02:00:51,570 --> 02:00:49,360
gene with Chris O'Brien

3250
02:00:53,460 --> 02:00:51,580
we have Micah Hanks Chris pick up on the

3251
02:00:55,260 --> 02:00:53,470
questioning and the discussions well

3252
02:00:56,820 --> 02:00:55,270
this brings to mind mean we could do a

3253
02:00:59,790 --> 02:00:56,830
whole show just on this subject I I

3254
02:01:03,140 --> 02:00:59,800
think I think that this is a very

3255
02:01:05,130 --> 02:01:03,150
exciting extremely underutilized

3256
02:01:07,620 --> 02:01:05,140
methodology I've been toying with the

3257
02:01:09,720 --> 02:01:07,630
idea of you know kind of diving back

3258
02:01:11,330 --> 02:01:09,730
into the psychonaut world which I

3259
02:01:14,970 --> 02:01:11,340
haven't been in for quite some years

3260
02:01:18,180 --> 02:01:14,980
although I must say in the early to mid

3261
02:01:21,660 --> 02:01:18,190
70s I was on that pedal was through the

3262
02:01:23,760 --> 02:01:21,670
metal shall we say throttle yeah you

3263
02:01:27,300 --> 02:01:23,770
have be on full throttle in hyperdrive

3264
02:01:29,910 --> 02:01:27,310
but that's being said I personally you

3265
02:01:31,920 --> 02:01:29,920
know have imbibed on quite a number of

3266
02:01:35,040 --> 02:01:31,930
occasions we'll just leave it at that

3267
02:01:38,180 --> 02:01:35,050
and I never had any of the sort of other

3268
02:01:41,040 --> 02:01:38,190
being type of encounters or experiences

3269
02:01:43,110 --> 02:01:41,050
whether real or imagined but I did

3270
02:01:46,970 --> 02:01:43,120
experience what Terence Mckenna

3271
02:01:50,220 --> 02:01:46,980
referred to as the voice especially when

3272
02:01:53,940 --> 02:01:50,230
psilocybin mushrooms were part of the

3273
02:01:58,430 --> 02:01:53,950
equation and this voice I feel is a very

3274
02:02:01,310 --> 02:01:58,440
interesting subject it's it's similar to

3275
02:02:02,450 --> 02:02:01,320
a disembodied sort of I wouldn't even

3276
02:02:03,439 --> 02:02:02,460
know how to describe it again we're

3277
02:02:04,910 --> 02:02:03,449
getting into that whole thing of

3278
02:02:08,300 --> 02:02:04,920
languaging and trying to describe the

3279
02:02:10,700 --> 02:02:08,310
indescribable but it definitely is

3280
02:02:13,160 --> 02:02:10,710
something separate from you it

3281
02:02:16,250 --> 02:02:13,170
definitely has its own perspective and

3282
02:02:17,900 --> 02:02:16,260
its own sort of wisdom if you will or in

3283
02:02:19,400 --> 02:02:17,910
some sense of the word almost a

3284
02:02:21,890 --> 02:02:19,410
trickster s kind of quality as well I

3285
02:02:23,750 --> 02:02:21,900
know it's overused term here but it's

3286
02:02:25,430 --> 02:02:23,760
very appropriate and one of the things

3287
02:02:29,209 --> 02:02:25,440
that I found is that that these

3288
02:02:31,280 --> 02:02:29,219
substances if you even mention them in

3289
02:02:33,200 --> 02:02:31,290
the same breath as any sort of

3290
02:02:36,260 --> 02:02:33,210
investigative process you are

3291
02:02:38,990 --> 02:02:36,270
automatically just branded a a nutcase

3292
02:02:40,700 --> 02:02:39,000
this guy obviously is a loose cannon and

3293
02:02:43,939 --> 02:02:40,710
so I've stayed away from this subject

3294
02:02:46,370 --> 02:02:43,949
and I really admire your your courage

3295
02:02:49,430 --> 02:02:46,380
really to to come out and really make a

3296
02:02:51,410 --> 02:02:49,440
case for a connection between altered

3297
02:02:53,990 --> 02:02:51,420
states of consciousness and the

3298
02:02:56,570 --> 02:02:54,000
experiences of people in in the

3299
02:02:58,430 --> 02:02:56,580
paranormal and I think this is a very

3300
02:03:01,310 --> 02:02:58,440
underutilized potential investigative

3301
02:03:03,470 --> 02:03:01,320
tool as well and I'm kind of toying

3302
02:03:06,590 --> 02:03:03,480
around with designing an experiment that

3303
02:03:09,500 --> 02:03:06,600
will feature certain investigators

3304
02:03:11,840 --> 02:03:09,510
full-throttle other investigators not

3305
02:03:14,300 --> 02:03:11,850
full-throttle in other investigators not

3306
02:03:16,100 --> 02:03:14,310
knowing which are which you know kind of

3307
02:03:18,110 --> 02:03:16,110
a double bind thing where you have

3308
02:03:20,020 --> 02:03:18,120
impartial third party observers who

3309
02:03:23,720 --> 02:03:20,030
don't know who's doing what and just

3310
02:03:25,700 --> 02:03:23,730
comparing notes at a particular location

3311
02:03:28,939 --> 02:03:25,710
specific site which I've already picked

3312
02:03:30,890 --> 02:03:28,949
out so this would be I think an example

3313
02:03:32,180 --> 02:03:30,900
of one of the things I really admire

3314
02:03:34,580 --> 02:03:32,190
about your work and that is really

3315
02:03:37,280 --> 02:03:34,590
looking forward coming up with creative

3316
02:03:39,800 --> 02:03:37,290
the investigative ideas and taking this

3317
02:03:41,600 --> 02:03:39,810
thing to the next level obviously we've

3318
02:03:43,760 --> 02:03:41,610
been spinning our wheels in ufology for

3319
02:03:45,800 --> 02:03:43,770
60 years where the wheel as far as I'm

3320
02:03:47,510 --> 02:03:45,810
concerned flew off a long time ago and

3321
02:03:48,470 --> 02:03:47,520
we really we really aren't making any

3322
02:03:50,510 --> 02:03:48,480
forward progress

3323
02:03:53,290 --> 02:03:50,520
I think haunted side investigations

3324
02:03:56,300 --> 02:03:53,300
these types of altered consciousness'

3325
02:03:58,910 --> 02:03:56,310
approaches I think are really important

3326
02:04:01,040 --> 02:03:58,920
and will bring the field forward I think

3327
02:04:02,270 --> 02:04:01,050
what are your feelings on that well you

3328
02:04:03,620 --> 02:04:02,280
know I mean I think that yeah we have to

3329
02:04:05,450 --> 02:04:03,630
revolutionize the way that we approach

3330
02:04:06,790 --> 02:04:05,460
these sorts of things you know yes there

3331
02:04:08,859 --> 02:04:06,800
is a good bit

3332
02:04:10,510 --> 02:04:08,869
information that deals with you know

3333
02:04:12,010 --> 02:04:10,520
what we call the psycho not psycho

3334
02:04:13,870 --> 02:04:12,020
explorers you know people who would you

3335
02:04:16,209 --> 02:04:13,880
know induce hallucinations which keep in

3336
02:04:18,129 --> 02:04:16,219
mind Carl Jung did this Carl Jung you

3337
02:04:21,100 --> 02:04:18,139
know who was one of the forefathers you

3338
02:04:23,200 --> 02:04:21,110
know of modern psychology didn't really

3339
02:04:25,390 --> 02:04:23,210
come out quite to what extent he did

3340
02:04:28,629 --> 02:04:25,400
this until a few years ago with the

3341
02:04:30,970 --> 02:04:28,639
publication of his his self self you

3342
02:04:34,270 --> 02:04:30,980
know illustrated and illuminated the red

3343
02:04:37,240 --> 02:04:34,280
book the red fascinators edition that's

3344
02:04:38,709 --> 02:04:37,250
so fascinating you know and of course is

3345
02:04:40,450 --> 02:04:38,719
I understand that Jung had begun to hear

3346
02:04:43,089 --> 02:04:40,460
voices and see images and things like

3347
02:04:45,339 --> 02:04:43,099
that in midlife keeping in mind that he

3348
02:04:47,620 --> 02:04:45,349
had described early in life feeling like

3349
02:04:49,030 --> 02:04:47,630
you know that he is his psyche and his

3350
02:04:50,500 --> 02:04:49,040
soul were kind of inhabited by two

3351
02:04:51,850 --> 02:04:50,510
individuals one that was the young boy

3352
02:04:54,339 --> 02:04:51,860
the school boy that he was the one that

3353
02:04:56,379 --> 02:04:54,349
was a an 18th century European gentleman

3354
02:04:58,240 --> 02:04:56,389
you know he described seeing you know a

3355
02:04:59,439 --> 02:04:58,250
ghost emerge from his mother's bedroom

3356
02:05:01,209 --> 02:04:59,449
one evening when he was a black kid and

3357
02:05:02,410 --> 02:05:01,219
he was very bothered by these sorts of

3358
02:05:04,569 --> 02:05:02,420
things and then later in life he'd begun

3359
02:05:06,040 --> 02:05:04,579
to hear voices and see images and

3360
02:05:07,780 --> 02:05:06,050
spirits and things like that and began

3361
02:05:10,930 --> 02:05:07,790
to think gee I must be actually

3362
02:05:13,450 --> 02:05:10,940
succumbing to psychosis myself know what

3363
02:05:14,830 --> 02:05:13,460
now how would somebody today be treated

3364
02:05:15,879 --> 02:05:14,840
if they began to experience these sorts

3365
02:05:17,439 --> 02:05:15,889
of things they'd be doped up on

3366
02:05:18,910 --> 02:05:17,449
medication or thrown in a hospital and

3367
02:05:20,410 --> 02:05:18,920
they'd be told that they were crazy for

3368
02:05:22,479 --> 02:05:20,420
the rest of their lives Carl Jung

3369
02:05:24,339 --> 02:05:22,489
decides to induce hallucinations and try

3370
02:05:26,140 --> 02:05:24,349
and learn from what he believed were

3371
02:05:29,160 --> 02:05:26,150
some sort of you know some sort of

3372
02:05:31,089 --> 02:05:29,170
elements of his own super-ego or

3373
02:05:33,700 --> 02:05:31,099
subconscious you know and that he wanted

3374
02:05:35,439 --> 02:05:33,710
to try and understand the complete you

3375
02:05:37,359 --> 02:05:35,449
know revelation so to speak he had a

3376
02:05:39,189 --> 02:05:37,369
clash with his own subconscious and what

3377
02:05:40,839 --> 02:05:39,199
he learned was the result was you know

3378
02:05:43,000 --> 02:05:40,849
what he called active animation and of

3379
02:05:45,100 --> 02:05:43,010
course you know the basis for his you

3380
02:05:47,859 --> 02:05:45,110
know theories about archetypes which has

3381
02:05:49,569 --> 02:05:47,869
become a foundation for some in modern

3382
02:05:50,950 --> 02:05:49,579
psychology now I'm not saying that

3383
02:05:53,709 --> 02:05:50,960
everyone who claims that they have is

3384
02:05:55,720 --> 02:05:53,719
you know a hallucination

3385
02:05:57,189 --> 02:05:55,730
whether that be self induced or you know

3386
02:05:58,839 --> 02:05:57,199
just the onset of something which we

3387
02:06:00,609 --> 02:05:58,849
would label psychosis I'm not saying

3388
02:06:02,859 --> 02:06:00,619
that we that every individual who has

3389
02:06:04,560 --> 02:06:02,869
this happen is actually having some sort

3390
02:06:06,700 --> 02:06:04,570
of sort of an otherworldly or a

3391
02:06:08,109 --> 02:06:06,710
subconscious encounter with something

3392
02:06:10,330 --> 02:06:08,119
unexplained that they should learn from

3393
02:06:12,310 --> 02:06:10,340
I do think though that maybe every

3394
02:06:14,470 --> 02:06:12,320
instance of strange phenomena that is

3395
02:06:16,180 --> 02:06:14,480
that is reported is not indeed you know

3396
02:06:18,310 --> 02:06:16,190
what we would define you know as a

3397
02:06:19,689 --> 02:06:18,320
clinical psychological aberration that

3398
02:06:20,040 --> 02:06:19,699
should be treated through the you know

3399
02:06:22,799 --> 02:06:20,050
the

3400
02:06:24,810 --> 02:06:22,809
prescription of medication I think it's

3401
02:06:27,540 --> 02:06:24,820
very sad that we tend to take people who

3402
02:06:30,240 --> 02:06:27,550
have quote-unquote problems you know

3403
02:06:31,979 --> 02:06:30,250
ADHD or whatever and and we got a dope

3404
02:06:34,830 --> 02:06:31,989
them up because you according to our

3405
02:06:36,899 --> 02:06:34,840
society's standards are crazy and that's

3406
02:06:38,879 --> 02:06:36,909
just not acceptable it's not healthy you

3407
02:06:40,229 --> 02:06:38,889
know obviously Carl Carl Jung was able

3408
02:06:42,030 --> 02:06:40,239
to learn from it but I realize it's a

3409
02:06:42,959 --> 02:06:42,040
fine line that we draw you know saying

3410
02:06:45,569 --> 02:06:42,969
who is crazy

3411
02:06:47,339 --> 02:06:45,579
and who is not and who can literally

3412
02:06:48,750 --> 02:06:47,349
learn from their experiences with the

3413
02:06:50,520 --> 02:06:48,760
unexplained but the point is is that

3414
02:06:52,200 --> 02:06:50,530
obviously consciousness is a very

3415
02:06:54,180 --> 02:06:52,210
difficult thing to describe reality is

3416
02:06:56,430 --> 02:06:54,190
probably an impossible thing to describe

3417
02:06:58,500 --> 02:06:56,440
we have these encounters with strange

3418
02:06:59,700 --> 02:06:58,510
phenomena you talk about the voice that

3419
02:07:01,770 --> 02:06:59,710
people describe when they're using

3420
02:07:03,660 --> 02:07:01,780
psilocybin and I talked with you know I

3421
02:07:04,950 --> 02:07:03,670
was you know I went and actually sat

3422
02:07:07,319 --> 02:07:04,960
down and had dinner with a young man

3423
02:07:08,399 --> 02:07:07,329
here from Asheville he contacted me and

3424
02:07:09,600 --> 02:07:08,409
said I'd like to get together and talk

3425
02:07:10,859 --> 02:07:09,610
because I've had some strange things

3426
02:07:11,939 --> 02:07:10,869
going on and I hear that you're someone

3427
02:07:13,470 --> 02:07:11,949
you might be able to help with this and

3428
02:07:15,149 --> 02:07:13,480
he contacted me and told me that he had

3429
02:07:16,830 --> 02:07:15,159
on a number of instances woke up and

3430
02:07:18,510 --> 02:07:16,840
heard the voice of a woman whispering to

3431
02:07:20,010 --> 02:07:18,520
him and there was no one in the room and

3432
02:07:21,390 --> 02:07:20,020
he said I don't feel like my house is

3433
02:07:23,129 --> 02:07:21,400
haunted it's a new house I don't

3434
02:07:24,780 --> 02:07:23,139
understand what's happening you wouldn't

3435
02:07:25,859 --> 02:07:24,790
believe how many people have contacted

3436
02:07:27,149 --> 02:07:25,869
me and said they'll wake up in the

3437
02:07:29,430 --> 02:07:27,159
morning in here a woman whispered to

3438
02:07:30,569 --> 02:07:29,440
them don't move or something similar to

3439
02:07:32,189 --> 02:07:30,579
that I had a friend who told me about

3440
02:07:34,049 --> 02:07:32,199
this and he literally hears this woman

3441
02:07:35,459 --> 02:07:34,059
say don't move he goes ok and just lays

3442
02:07:36,660 --> 02:07:35,469
there for five minutes and then he jumps

3443
02:07:38,879 --> 02:07:36,670
up out of bed and he's ready to strike

3444
02:07:40,799 --> 02:07:38,889
somebody me and he ended up asking his

3445
02:07:42,560 --> 02:07:40,809
roommate later did you have a girl over

3446
02:07:45,120 --> 02:07:42,570
here stay in the night last night no

3447
02:07:46,379 --> 02:07:45,130
over here and you hear about this you

3448
02:07:48,720 --> 02:07:46,389
know and people start literally

3449
02:07:51,359 --> 02:07:48,730
questioning their own sanity for years

3450
02:07:52,680 --> 02:07:51,369
and we had a guest on recently where he

3451
02:07:55,620 --> 02:07:52,690
had a voice telling that the underground

3452
02:07:58,649 --> 02:07:55,630
bases were real oh boy did that that

3453
02:08:00,540 --> 02:07:58,659
that in ignite a firestorm on the para

3454
02:08:02,220 --> 02:08:00,550
caste forum so I'm referring to dr.

3455
02:08:04,319 --> 02:08:02,230
Richard Sauter of course who went on to

3456
02:08:06,689 --> 02:08:04,329
write the preeminent book on the subject

3457
02:08:09,600 --> 02:08:06,699
and he got validation from a a

3458
02:08:11,819 --> 02:08:09,610
mysterious disembodied voice that had a

3459
02:08:14,280 --> 02:08:11,829
whole conversation with it ya know I got

3460
02:08:16,979 --> 02:08:14,290
a letter after I made some sarcastic

3461
02:08:19,049 --> 02:08:16,989
comments about the voices pointing me to

3462
02:08:22,200 --> 02:08:19,059
research that had been done into being

3463
02:08:24,540 --> 02:08:22,210
able to use machines to send those

3464
02:08:26,669 --> 02:08:24,550
voices disembodied voices to people a

3465
02:08:28,740 --> 02:08:26,679
real-life scientific development who

3466
02:08:30,870 --> 02:08:28,750
knows Micah Hanks joins us this week I'm

3467
02:08:32,050 --> 02:08:30,880
gene Steinberg the co-host is Chris

3468
02:08:42,550 --> 02:08:32,060
O'Brien you're in

3469
02:08:45,370 --> 02:08:42,560
the para cast is there a secret UFO

3470
02:08:47,740 --> 02:08:45,380
agenda two strange creatures from the

3471
02:08:50,140 --> 02:08:47,750
darkest corners of the mind roam the

3472
02:08:53,350 --> 02:08:50,150
earth is there evidence for mind-control

3473
02:08:56,440 --> 02:08:53,360
time travel or devious government

3474
02:08:58,930 --> 02:08:56,450
conspiracies find out the inside scoop

3475
02:09:01,570 --> 02:08:58,940
on the latest conspiracies paranormal

3476
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activity and accordion phenomenon when

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you subscribe to Tim Beckley's

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conspiracy term it's jam-packed with

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and the best news it's absolutely free

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Friday simply sent an email with your

3484
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name and address to Mister UFO at WebTV

3485
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dotnet that's mr. UFO at web TV dotnet

3486
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find out what they don't want you to

3487
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America's number one source for

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3575
02:13:01,230 --> 02:12:58,110
hi my name is Richard Dolan you're

3576
02:13:05,709 --> 02:13:01,240
listening to the para cast

3577
02:13:10,840 --> 02:13:08,350
we're winding down trying to understand

3578
02:13:12,610 --> 02:13:10,850
the incredible mysteries paranormal

3579
02:13:14,800 --> 02:13:12,620
mysteries strange creatures strange

3580
02:13:18,340 --> 02:13:14,810
events and other things does it require

3581
02:13:20,290 --> 02:13:18,350
taking some kind of substance to gain

3582
02:13:24,510 --> 02:13:20,300
this understanding or can you basically

3583
02:13:26,530 --> 02:13:24,520
induce yourself to be more perceptive by

3584
02:13:28,209 --> 02:13:26,540
meditation or something does it always

3585
02:13:29,800 --> 02:13:28,219
have to be chemical that's a good

3586
02:13:31,270 --> 02:13:29,810
question that is a good question and

3587
02:13:33,520 --> 02:13:31,280
actually if you don't mind I'll dive in

3588
02:13:36,640 --> 02:13:33,530
there and I'll take a whack at that one

3589
02:13:38,950 --> 02:13:36,650
without a Michals without chemicals well

3590
02:13:40,720 --> 02:13:38,960
here's the thing you know when we talk

3591
02:13:42,640 --> 02:13:40,730
about a self induced hallucination you

3592
02:13:44,140 --> 02:13:42,650
know maybe with the utilization of

3593
02:13:46,600 --> 02:13:44,150
something like dimethyltryptamine what

3594
02:13:48,910 --> 02:13:46,610
we do know about that very interestingly

3595
02:13:50,650 --> 02:13:48,920
is that not only is dimethyltryptamine a

3596
02:13:52,570 --> 02:13:50,660
closed chemical cousin of melatonin

3597
02:13:54,130 --> 02:13:52,580
produced in our bodies which regulates

3598
02:13:54,729 --> 02:13:54,140
sleep sex drive and a number of things

3599
02:13:56,860 --> 02:13:54,739
like that

3600
02:13:59,110 --> 02:13:56,870
dimethyltryptamine is also produced in

3601
02:14:01,060 --> 02:13:59,120
the body it is believed by Rick

3602
02:14:03,490 --> 02:14:01,070
Strassman and others to to emanate from

3603
02:14:05,350 --> 02:14:03,500
the pineal gland but we don't know for

3604
02:14:07,360 --> 02:14:05,360
certain if that's where it's from we do

3605
02:14:09,400 --> 02:14:07,370
know the you know that that blood can be

3606
02:14:11,020 --> 02:14:09,410
here the levels of DMT can be measured

3607
02:14:12,910 --> 02:14:11,030
in bloodstream you know specifically you

3608
02:14:14,500 --> 02:14:12,920
know after blood is extracted you know

3609
02:14:16,750 --> 02:14:14,510
from a corpse when a person is recently

3610
02:14:18,520 --> 02:14:16,760
deceased and this leads it lends itself

3611
02:14:21,340 --> 02:14:18,530
according to some to the theory that

3612
02:14:23,500 --> 02:14:21,350
maybe there is a release of DMT into the

3613
02:14:26,020 --> 02:14:23,510
body at the time of death or just before

3614
02:14:28,120 --> 02:14:26,030
which is what causes you know these

3615
02:14:30,010 --> 02:14:28,130
near-death experiences and things like

3616
02:14:31,240 --> 02:14:30,020
that and and of course people seeing

3617
02:14:33,580 --> 02:14:31,250
angels while they're lying in the

3618
02:14:36,310 --> 02:14:33,590
hospital bed on their way out Thomas

3619
02:14:38,080 --> 02:14:36,320
Alva Edison was very skeptical very and

3620
02:14:40,030 --> 02:14:38,090
almost atheist in his in his approach to

3621
02:14:41,620 --> 02:14:40,040
you know the stranger aspects of life

3622
02:14:43,689 --> 02:14:41,630
and my I was lying on his deathbed was

3623
02:14:44,979 --> 02:14:43,699
said to have have actually quoted

3624
02:14:46,510 --> 02:14:44,989
something along the lines of they're so

3625
02:14:48,640 --> 02:14:46,520
beautiful I can see them over there and

3626
02:14:50,770 --> 02:14:48,650
then passed away so you know we hear all

3627
02:14:52,600 --> 02:14:50,780
these instances where people have things

3628
02:14:54,490 --> 02:14:52,610
like this happen and maybe not just at

3629
02:14:57,910 --> 02:14:54,500
the time of death maybe during you know

3630
02:14:59,410 --> 02:14:57,920
extreme trauma or shock-induced you know

3631
02:15:02,170 --> 02:14:59,420
scenarios where someone you know is

3632
02:15:04,420 --> 02:15:02,180
maybe near death and dr. Raymond Moody's

3633
02:15:07,030 --> 02:15:04,430
turn the near-death experience perhaps

3634
02:15:08,050 --> 02:15:07,040
the chemical reason behind that is the

3635
02:15:10,330 --> 02:15:08,060
release of something like dimethyl

3636
02:15:11,590 --> 02:15:10,340
tryptamine into the bloodstream so you

3637
02:15:13,930 --> 02:15:11,600
know g-man we're talking about you know

3638
02:15:15,700 --> 02:15:13,940
not inducing an experience you're taking

3639
02:15:17,919 --> 02:15:15,710
chemicals you know I think that there

3640
02:15:19,630 --> 02:15:17,929
are always chemical components but maybe

3641
02:15:21,010 --> 02:15:19,640
those actually occur within our body

3642
02:15:22,630 --> 02:15:21,020
and the very same sorts of things if we

3643
02:15:25,060 --> 02:15:22,640
could open a metabolic pathway within

3644
02:15:27,310 --> 02:15:25,070
ourselves could occur without having to

3645
02:15:29,770 --> 02:15:27,320
actually take something you know from

3646
02:15:31,420 --> 02:15:29,780
outside our bodies how that would occur

3647
02:15:33,760 --> 02:15:31,430
is another great mystery some people

3648
02:15:35,290 --> 02:15:33,770
describe that meditation seems to to do

3649
02:15:36,700 --> 02:15:35,300
this and I think that like all things

3650
02:15:38,550 --> 02:15:36,710
that can be learned and acquired that

3651
02:15:40,690 --> 02:15:38,560
may be you know the ability to control

3652
02:15:42,220 --> 02:15:40,700
metabolic pathways you know in our

3653
02:15:43,870 --> 02:15:42,230
bodies that could elicit you know

3654
02:15:45,940 --> 02:15:43,880
ecstatic visions and things like that

3655
02:15:48,610 --> 02:15:45,950
through perhaps meditation breathing

3656
02:15:50,800 --> 02:15:48,620
exercises ecstatic postures yoga things

3657
02:15:51,940 --> 02:15:50,810
like that very well could be something

3658
02:15:54,340 --> 02:15:51,950
that you know through time and practice

3659
02:15:56,680 --> 02:15:54,350
could be tapped into and learn to

3660
02:15:58,150 --> 02:15:56,690
control to a degree well you know part

3661
02:16:00,310 --> 02:15:58,160
of the problem I think what the skeptics

3662
02:16:02,140 --> 02:16:00,320
are going to say any time you put

3663
02:16:04,030 --> 02:16:02,150
chemicals into the picture chemicals

3664
02:16:06,550 --> 02:16:04,040
enter the picture meditations things

3665
02:16:08,140 --> 02:16:06,560
like that suddenly it's so longer real

3666
02:16:11,290 --> 02:16:08,150
it's just a product of your imagination

3667
02:16:13,030 --> 02:16:11,300
they're exactly any external reality so

3668
02:16:15,940 --> 02:16:13,040
the question is here how do you

3669
02:16:18,220 --> 02:16:15,950
demonstrate or validate an external

3670
02:16:19,750 --> 02:16:18,230
reality the problem is you can't and the

3671
02:16:21,190 --> 02:16:19,760
truth of the matter is is that even if

3672
02:16:23,560 --> 02:16:21,200
we look at science we have rigorous

3673
02:16:26,010 --> 02:16:23,570
scientific you know methodology we have

3674
02:16:28,300 --> 02:16:26,020
the scientific method we can quantify

3675
02:16:29,740 --> 02:16:28,310
certain things that are observable in

3676
02:16:32,830 --> 02:16:29,750
nature and therefore we write little

3677
02:16:34,810 --> 02:16:32,840
thesis easy or theses and and hypotheses

3678
02:16:36,669 --> 02:16:34,820
about this is what we believe is

3679
02:16:39,220 --> 02:16:36,679
occurring but you know this is why I

3680
02:16:41,350 --> 02:16:39,230
bring it back to philosophy what do we

3681
02:16:44,850 --> 02:16:41,360
really know what the five senses really

3682
02:16:47,440 --> 02:16:44,860
tell us define consciousness we can't

3683
02:16:49,209 --> 02:16:47,450
yet to really define consciousness

3684
02:16:51,220 --> 02:16:49,219
because you need consciousness to define

3685
02:16:53,020 --> 02:16:51,230
itself exactly you know and it becomes

3686
02:16:54,820 --> 02:16:53,030
kind of a you know a vicious circle the

3687
02:16:56,590 --> 02:16:54,830
mainstream scientific establishment

3688
02:16:58,360 --> 02:16:56,600
believes and this is the big problem we

3689
02:16:59,590 --> 02:16:58,370
believe because we have observed and we

3690
02:17:02,140 --> 02:16:59,600
know that this is true and therefore

3691
02:17:04,120 --> 02:17:02,150
these things outside of that are not and

3692
02:17:06,760 --> 02:17:04,130
frankly I don't know that anything

3693
02:17:08,410 --> 02:17:06,770
observable is truly quantifiable you

3694
02:17:09,940 --> 02:17:08,420
know and that's the big problem well you

3695
02:17:11,590 --> 02:17:09,950
know it has to be quantifiable to some

3696
02:17:13,360 --> 02:17:11,600
degree I mean or else we're all just you

3697
02:17:15,280 --> 02:17:13,370
know you know meat bodies floating out

3698
02:17:17,140 --> 02:17:15,290
here in space you know yeah I know it

3699
02:17:18,370 --> 02:17:17,150
gets to be a very difficult argument but

3700
02:17:20,260 --> 02:17:18,380
the thing is is once you begin to look

3701
02:17:22,110 --> 02:17:20,270
at things like that and you realized how

3702
02:17:23,860 --> 02:17:22,120
impossible it is to define reality

3703
02:17:25,450 --> 02:17:23,870
consciousness and all these things and

3704
02:17:27,430 --> 02:17:25,460
realize that everything that we take as

3705
02:17:29,350 --> 02:17:27,440
scientific fact is actually dependent

3706
02:17:30,850 --> 02:17:29,360
entirely on our perspective of reality

3707
02:17:32,719 --> 02:17:30,860
which is something that we're continuing

3708
02:17:34,339 --> 02:17:32,729
to revise and formulate whether

3709
02:17:36,500 --> 02:17:34,349
Relativity string theory any of these

3710
02:17:38,479 --> 02:17:36,510
things and it's also dependent entirely

3711
02:17:39,830 --> 02:17:38,489
on perception which is dependent on what

3712
02:17:41,779 --> 02:17:39,840
consciousness we think we're

3713
02:17:43,189 --> 02:17:41,789
consciousness we think therefore we are

3714
02:17:45,559 --> 02:17:43,199
right I believe a famous philosopher

3715
02:17:47,419 --> 02:17:45,569
said that once and therefore here we are

3716
02:17:49,309 --> 02:17:47,429
but what we really know outside the five

3717
02:17:51,019 --> 02:17:49,319
senses what inside our head can we

3718
02:17:53,059 --> 02:17:51,029
really trust about what we observe and

3719
02:17:54,950 --> 02:17:53,069
if you realize and you accept that then

3720
02:17:56,629 --> 02:17:54,960
and only then I think and can we open

3721
02:17:58,849 --> 02:17:56,639
our mind to the possibility that there

3722
02:18:00,799 --> 02:17:58,859
are things outside of what we would call

3723
02:18:02,750 --> 02:18:00,809
conventionally observable which

3724
02:18:05,719 --> 02:18:02,760
shouldn't maybe be discounted entirely

3725
02:18:07,040 --> 02:18:05,729
maybe meditation and maybe a strange

3726
02:18:09,290 --> 02:18:07,050
phenomena and the interrelationship

3727
02:18:11,089 --> 02:18:09,300
between all these kinds of things maybe

3728
02:18:12,859 --> 02:18:11,099
there's something very valid about that

3729
02:18:15,439 --> 02:18:12,869
maybe it's the very essence of our human

3730
02:18:17,000 --> 02:18:15,449
subconscious and collective conscious

3731
02:18:19,189 --> 02:18:17,010
you know it's the very heart of being

3732
02:18:21,709 --> 02:18:19,199
human and we're denying this incredibly

3733
02:18:22,669 --> 02:18:21,719
important aspect of ourselves right and

3734
02:18:24,709 --> 02:18:22,679
then we have to come up with the

3735
02:18:27,769 --> 02:18:24,719
languaging to effectively communicate it

3736
02:18:29,509 --> 02:18:27,779
to someone else you have a whole you

3737
02:18:32,089 --> 02:18:29,519
know filter an interpretive process that

3738
02:18:34,279 --> 02:18:32,099
goes on there and what is what is

3739
02:18:35,660 --> 02:18:34,289
communicated may not be interpreted

3740
02:18:38,660 --> 02:18:35,670
correctly by the person being

3741
02:18:40,429 --> 02:18:38,670
communicated to so true it's it's it's a

3742
02:18:43,629 --> 02:18:40,439
really slippery slope when you're

3743
02:18:46,099 --> 02:18:43,639
dealing with this whole conundrum and

3744
02:18:49,040 --> 02:18:46,109
again I think your book does a very good

3745
02:18:51,139 --> 02:18:49,050
job of sort of looking at this in a new

3746
02:18:52,609 --> 02:18:51,149
and different way and and applying it

3747
02:18:55,009 --> 02:18:52,619
you know from your own personal

3748
02:18:56,599 --> 02:18:55,019
experiences and also from you know the

3749
02:18:58,609 --> 02:18:56,609
obvious amount of you know intense

3750
02:19:00,709 --> 02:18:58,619
research that you did to you know to

3751
02:19:01,910 --> 02:19:00,719
examine any subjects and I personally

3752
02:19:03,950 --> 02:19:01,920
feel that we need to come up with

3753
02:19:07,669 --> 02:19:03,960
something we need to come up with a new

3754
02:19:09,889 --> 02:19:07,679
you know approach for investigation we

3755
02:19:12,500 --> 02:19:09,899
need to get really creative get out of

3756
02:19:14,989 --> 02:19:12,510
the box because I think anything short

3757
02:19:19,399 --> 02:19:14,999
of that is just gonna have us sitting

3758
02:19:23,989 --> 02:19:19,409
here spinning our wheels you know yeah

3759
02:19:26,359 --> 02:19:23,999
testify you know I'm up I'm up on the

3760
02:19:30,349 --> 02:19:26,369
pulpit forget the soapbox okay ladies

3761
02:19:36,019 --> 02:19:30,359
and gentlemen we have brother Chris and

3762
02:19:37,939 --> 02:19:36,029
brother Micah thank you Jesus this has

3763
02:19:41,209 --> 02:19:37,949
become the religious power our ladies

3764
02:19:45,310 --> 02:19:41,219
and gentlemen from Piedmont Alabama I

3765
02:19:48,730 --> 02:19:45,320
believe no I start in radio

3766
02:19:50,380 --> 02:19:48,740
basically Piedmont Alabama and the radio

3767
02:19:53,620 --> 02:19:50,390
station I don't even know if it still

3768
02:19:56,050 --> 02:19:53,630
exists called WP ID and I asked somebody

3769
02:19:59,940 --> 02:19:56,060
what does that mean it means well Pete

3770
02:20:03,790 --> 02:19:59,950
Maude is dead and the first morning

3771
02:20:06,970 --> 02:20:03,800
Sunday morning I was there we had some

3772
02:20:09,040 --> 02:20:06,980
religious organization and they came in

3773
02:20:10,780 --> 02:20:09,050
there and I did their show and I learned

3774
02:20:12,700 --> 02:20:10,790
in broadcasting school I learned in

3775
02:20:16,990 --> 02:20:12,710
college that you didn't want to over

3776
02:20:18,730 --> 02:20:17,000
drive the modulation otherwise if you

3777
02:20:19,810 --> 02:20:18,740
did the FCC might psyche you now of

3778
02:20:21,280 --> 02:20:19,820
course before they had all these

3779
02:20:24,790 --> 02:20:21,290
limiters and stuff that control the

3780
02:20:27,640 --> 02:20:24,800
volume at real radio stations so this

3781
02:20:29,200 --> 02:20:27,650
brother whoever and his crew they'd get

3782
02:20:31,750 --> 02:20:29,210
in there and he start preaching very

3783
02:20:33,340 --> 02:20:31,760
soft so I turn up the level and then he

3784
02:20:34,840 --> 02:20:33,350
got louder and I turned down the level

3785
02:20:36,580 --> 02:20:34,850
they got louder and suddenly it was so

3786
02:20:39,070 --> 02:20:36,590
loud I thought I could open the door in

3787
02:20:41,500 --> 02:20:39,080
the entire town could hear him screaming

3788
02:20:47,280 --> 02:20:41,510
and yelling and then he talked about the

3789
02:20:51,880 --> 02:20:47,290
sinners and it looks squarely at me ooh

3790
02:20:53,950 --> 02:20:51,890
that's my experience oh boy Chapel it

3791
02:20:56,200 --> 02:20:53,960
was called ha ha because you were

3792
02:20:57,790 --> 02:20:56,210
moderating his volume that's when you

3793
02:20:58,900 --> 02:20:57,800
didn't even need to do a broadcast you

3794
02:21:01,470 --> 02:20:58,910
could open the door and the whole town

3795
02:21:03,520 --> 02:21:01,480
would've heard the guy that was it Oh

3796
02:21:04,320 --> 02:21:03,530
fascinating gene he never came back the

3797
02:21:07,420 --> 02:21:04,330
following week

3798
02:21:10,480 --> 02:21:07,430
did he not really no he didn't like his

3799
02:21:12,761 --> 02:21:10,490
Piedmont's dead yeah something died you

3800
02:21:14,020 --> 02:21:12,771
know we're gonna get letters now because

3801
02:21:15,970 --> 02:21:14,030
we're hurting in Atlanta you know

3802
02:21:17,650 --> 02:21:15,980
Piedmont was halfway between Birmingham

3803
02:21:19,840 --> 02:21:17,660
and Atlanta we have an Atlanta outlet

3804
02:21:23,500 --> 02:21:19,850
picking this up so I'm kind of expecting

3805
02:21:24,970 --> 02:21:23,510
that somebody who listens to us in the

3806
02:21:27,700 --> 02:21:24,980
southern part of the US gonna write a

3807
02:21:30,310 --> 02:21:27,710
letter in saying oh that crazy steinberg

3808
02:21:33,160 --> 02:21:30,320
character from New York and he's ragging

3809
02:21:35,500 --> 02:21:33,170
on southern preachers and why would he

3810
02:21:37,270 --> 02:21:35,510
do something like that what's the matter

3811
02:21:39,310 --> 02:21:37,280
with him and you know what in those days

3812
02:21:41,410 --> 02:21:39,320
in another town in which we live

3813
02:21:42,970 --> 02:21:41,420
Tuscumbia near Muscle Shoals where they

3814
02:21:45,160 --> 02:21:42,980
have all those famous recording studios

3815
02:21:47,170 --> 02:21:45,170
one of our close friends was a local

3816
02:21:49,410 --> 02:21:47,180
preacher who was co-owner of the country

3817
02:21:51,210 --> 02:21:49,420
music radio station what a strange

3818
02:21:53,849 --> 02:21:51,220
history I have lived

3819
02:21:56,280 --> 02:21:53,859
no yes intriguing we could spend an

3820
02:21:59,550 --> 02:21:56,290
entire place an hour of phenomenology

3821
02:22:02,219 --> 02:21:59,560
with Jean Steinberg reminiscing about

3822
02:22:04,440 --> 02:22:02,229
things that have nothing to do with the

3823
02:22:07,500 --> 02:22:04,450
paranormal or if they have a peripheral

3824
02:22:08,130 --> 02:22:07,510
relationship that I can't discern that's

3825
02:22:11,580 --> 02:22:08,140
how it goes

3826
02:22:13,260 --> 02:22:11,590
we have Micah Hanks and he has something

3827
02:22:15,150 --> 02:22:13,270
called the graylien report which is

3828
02:22:17,190 --> 02:22:15,160
about gray aliens and any other color

3829
02:22:19,530 --> 02:22:17,200
and Mothman and all sorts of strange

3830
02:22:21,179 --> 02:22:19,540
unusual mysteries and we've been

3831
02:22:23,639 --> 02:22:21,189
covering some of this stuff and we'll be

3832
02:22:25,800 --> 02:22:23,649
kind of bringing in a whole home we'll

3833
02:22:27,900 --> 02:22:25,810
bring it all home in our final segment

3834
02:22:30,030 --> 02:22:27,910
with Micah Micah Hanks joining us the

3835
02:22:32,550 --> 02:22:30,040
co-host is Chris O'Brien I'm gene

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02:22:39,170 --> 02:22:32,560
Steinberg you're in the para cast

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call the Berkey guy at one eight seven

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deposit into your kidneys and adrenals

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and cause them to lose up to 60% of

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their functional capacity I've had

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mercury can do to the body

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I've made it a life's work to figure out

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what went wrong after I got two large

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02:25:59,110 --> 02:25:57,200
mercury fillings put into my teeth I

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also know the most effective means by

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which the body can remove mercury it has

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to do in large part with how well your

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liver functions and how much glutathione

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02:26:28,380 --> 02:26:26,109
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are the GCM radio network

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[Music]

3948
02:27:18,630 --> 02:27:16,540
music from our guests Micah Hanks it

3949
02:27:20,550 --> 02:27:18,640
comes down to this with Micah Hanks on

3950
02:27:23,130 --> 02:27:20,560
the power cast with Gene and Chris we're

3951
02:27:25,950 --> 02:27:23,140
exploring incredible mysteries and I

3952
02:27:28,290 --> 02:27:25,960
guess we could just go into any question

3953
02:27:31,110 --> 02:27:28,300
we've asked and do two shows worth from

3954
02:27:33,240 --> 02:27:31,120
each one but I kind of wonder Micah all

3955
02:27:35,910 --> 02:27:33,250
the areas that we're covering a lot of

3956
02:27:37,019 --> 02:27:35,920
them tend to be alien to traditional

3957
02:27:38,190 --> 02:27:37,029
science they don't want to look at this

3958
02:27:39,780 --> 02:27:38,200
stuff they don't want to look at things

3959
02:27:42,120 --> 02:27:39,790
well maybe you take a substance or maybe

3960
02:27:43,920 --> 02:27:42,130
you meditate maybe you see something

3961
02:27:46,200 --> 02:27:43,930
that we don't have in our textbooks so

3962
02:27:48,300 --> 02:27:46,210
how do you encourage such people to

3963
02:27:50,099 --> 02:27:48,310
investigate this stuff because we really

3964
02:27:52,950 --> 02:27:50,109
need to know what's going on well I

3965
02:27:55,889 --> 02:27:52,960
suggest that you must be scientific you

3966
02:27:57,630 --> 02:27:55,899
know you must you know I recommend go to

3967
02:27:59,250 --> 02:27:57,640
your area thrift shops or a Goodwill

3968
02:28:00,840 --> 02:27:59,260
store or something like that I spend a

3969
02:28:02,490 --> 02:28:00,850
lot of time combing through used books

3970
02:28:04,050 --> 02:28:02,500
towards where I can get you know all

3971
02:28:06,929 --> 02:28:04,060
kinds of books I don't I don't go out

3972
02:28:07,769 --> 02:28:06,939
always looking for something I go out to

3973
02:28:10,679 --> 02:28:07,779
see what I'll find

3974
02:28:11,729 --> 02:28:10,689
I find books about oh gosh you wouldn't

3975
02:28:12,960 --> 02:28:11,739
believe all the different kinds of

3976
02:28:14,790 --> 02:28:12,970
things you know but a lot of the time

3977
02:28:17,849 --> 02:28:14,800
you'll also find textbooks pick up a

3978
02:28:19,860 --> 02:28:17,859
textbook on um you know schizophrenia or

3979
02:28:21,630 --> 02:28:19,870
you know psychological aberrations to

3980
02:28:24,090 --> 02:28:21,640
pick up a textbook about the scientific

3981
02:28:25,590 --> 02:28:24,100
method pick up a textbook about physics

3982
02:28:27,210 --> 02:28:25,600
you know grab grab something that you

3983
02:28:29,010 --> 02:28:27,220
can you know is the thing is you can

3984
02:28:30,120 --> 02:28:29,020
find anything you want inexpensively and

3985
02:28:31,800 --> 02:28:30,130
you'll find even more things that you

3986
02:28:33,990 --> 02:28:31,810
didn't know that you wanted but you'll

3987
02:28:35,490 --> 02:28:34,000
want when you see them get books learn

3988
02:28:36,990 --> 02:28:35,500
you know but do understand the

3989
02:28:38,400 --> 02:28:37,000
scientific method you know I have a

3990
02:28:39,690 --> 02:28:38,410
little beginner's guide to the

3991
02:28:42,090 --> 02:28:39,700
scientific method that you know is

3992
02:28:44,070 --> 02:28:42,100
usually incorporated into you know

3993
02:28:45,570 --> 02:28:44,080
general science and biology courses and

3994
02:28:47,880 --> 02:28:45,580
community colleges and things like that

3995
02:28:50,130 --> 02:28:47,890
now I'll review that every now and then

3996
02:28:52,469 --> 02:28:50,140
you will learn from this to be careful

3997
02:28:54,809 --> 02:28:52,479
drawing patterns and associations and

3998
02:28:57,179 --> 02:28:54,819
parallels between seemingly unrelated

3999
02:28:59,219 --> 02:28:57,189
phenomena a real quick example you know

4000
02:29:02,630 --> 02:28:59,229
we could say that maybe for instance

4001
02:29:05,580 --> 02:29:02,640
that people who make a lot of money

4002
02:29:07,950 --> 02:29:05,590
typically are older and now older people

4003
02:29:09,450 --> 02:29:07,960
also are typically going to be more

4004
02:29:11,160 --> 02:29:09,460
inclined to wear glasses because you

4005
02:29:12,269 --> 02:29:11,170
know as one progresses throughout their

4006
02:29:14,880 --> 02:29:12,279
years and everything their eyesight

4007
02:29:17,099 --> 02:29:14,890
diminishes somewhat so can we draw a

4008
02:29:20,099 --> 02:29:17,109
correlation between younger people who

4009
02:29:21,300 --> 02:29:20,109
are not wealthy and or where they're not

4010
02:29:23,070 --> 02:29:21,310
younger people who are not wealthy can

4011
02:29:24,961 --> 02:29:23,080
we draw a correlation between people who

4012
02:29:27,241 --> 02:29:24,971
are wealthy and people who have poor

4013
02:29:28,741 --> 02:29:27,251
I sight knowing that maybe traditionally

4014
02:29:30,151 --> 02:29:28,751
a person who's worked their entire life

4015
02:29:31,741 --> 02:29:30,161
and set back more money are gonna have

4016
02:29:33,001 --> 02:29:31,751
more money but there I said also

4017
02:29:34,350 --> 02:29:33,011
diminishes younger people who haven't

4018
02:29:36,600 --> 02:29:34,360
worked as long don't have as much money

4019
02:29:38,850 --> 02:29:36,610
better eyesight can we say if there's a

4020
02:29:41,761 --> 02:29:38,860
direct relationship between a you know

4021
02:29:42,810 --> 02:29:41,771
less income and good eyesight I don't

4022
02:29:45,421 --> 02:29:42,820
think so you know that's the thing you

4023
02:29:47,430 --> 02:29:45,431
do have to be careful sometimes when you

4024
02:29:49,560 --> 02:29:47,440
draw you know associations and

4025
02:29:51,060 --> 02:29:49,570
correlations between things and coming

4026
02:29:53,430 --> 02:29:51,070
back to mothman which we open the the

4027
02:29:55,281 --> 02:29:53,440
show discussing you know did Mothman

4028
02:29:57,751 --> 02:29:55,291
cause the collapse of the Silver Bridge

4029
02:29:59,430 --> 02:29:57,761
probably not I think that it's it's

4030
02:30:01,501 --> 02:29:59,440
difficult to infer and I know that that

4031
02:30:03,301 --> 02:30:01,511
you know wouldn't psyche fury among a

4032
02:30:04,831 --> 02:30:03,311
lot of people who study this stuff for a

4033
02:30:06,781 --> 02:30:04,841
long time what about the death lists

4034
02:30:08,970 --> 02:30:06,791
what about the you know the reports of

4035
02:30:11,401 --> 02:30:08,980
strange phenomenon you know occurring in

4036
02:30:13,350 --> 02:30:11,411
tandem with with bad luck you know I

4037
02:30:14,430 --> 02:30:13,360
won't deny that that's the case you know

4038
02:30:15,961 --> 02:30:14,440
and that's why I bring up some of the

4039
02:30:17,640 --> 02:30:15,971
lesser-known you know entities like

4040
02:30:20,341 --> 02:30:17,650
walking Sam you know even the the

4041
02:30:22,291 --> 02:30:20,351
leaping louts along the line of Barack

4042
02:30:25,381 --> 02:30:22,301
the spring man of Prague which was kind

4043
02:30:27,901 --> 02:30:25,391
of a variation of the leaping fiend of

4044
02:30:31,770 --> 02:30:27,911
London the the infamous Spring Heeled

4045
02:30:34,201 --> 02:30:31,780
Jack a lot of these 14 characters you

4046
02:30:36,241 --> 02:30:34,211
know who in all likelihood many of them

4047
02:30:38,791 --> 02:30:36,251
are either the result of of folklore and

4048
02:30:40,081 --> 02:30:38,801
folk tales or you know hoaxes but

4049
02:30:41,581 --> 02:30:40,091
occasionally there have there has to be

4050
02:30:43,321 --> 02:30:41,591
some truths behind some of this stuff

4051
02:30:45,480 --> 02:30:43,331
but whatever the case might be wherever

4052
02:30:47,761 --> 02:30:45,490
these these ideas come from they are

4053
02:30:49,801 --> 02:30:47,771
very often associated with bad luck and

4054
02:30:51,390 --> 02:30:49,811
misdeeds misfortune and things like that

4055
02:30:52,441 --> 02:30:51,400
does that mean that if a Bigfoot shows

4056
02:30:54,211 --> 02:30:52,451
up that you know you're gonna have a

4057
02:30:56,251 --> 02:30:54,221
death in the family or that if you see a

4058
02:30:57,720 --> 02:30:56,261
UFO that you're gonna lose your job I

4059
02:30:59,191 --> 02:30:57,730
don't think so and I think that we have

4060
02:31:01,201 --> 02:30:59,201
to be careful when we draw those kind of

4061
02:31:03,060 --> 02:31:01,211
parallels you know and and infer things

4062
02:31:05,970 --> 02:31:03,070
about phenomenon that may not actually

4063
02:31:07,801 --> 02:31:05,980
truly exist I think the big problem with

4064
02:31:09,720 --> 02:31:07,811
ufology today is that we have spent the

4065
02:31:11,611 --> 02:31:09,730
last several decades assuming that there

4066
02:31:13,201 --> 02:31:11,621
is an elaborate alien hybridization

4067
02:31:15,151 --> 02:31:13,211
program going on that people are being

4068
02:31:17,671 --> 02:31:15,161
abducted by creatures from outer space

4069
02:31:18,720 --> 02:31:17,681
you want to here's my opinion yeah and

4070
02:31:20,220 --> 02:31:18,730
I'll tell you right now if you want to

4071
02:31:22,321 --> 02:31:20,230
know the truth I don't think that we

4072
02:31:25,291 --> 02:31:22,331
should look at alien abduction reports

4073
02:31:27,331 --> 02:31:25,301
necessarily in tandem with UFO reports

4074
02:31:30,631 --> 02:31:27,341
although sometimes the appearance of a

4075
02:31:32,371 --> 02:31:30,641
UFO occurs in conjunction with people's

4076
02:31:34,261 --> 02:31:32,381
claims of seeing beings and things like

4077
02:31:35,260 --> 02:31:34,271
that sometimes I think that truly

4078
02:31:37,210 --> 02:31:35,270
electromagnetic

4079
02:31:38,769 --> 02:31:37,220
other forms of radiation sometimes can

4080
02:31:41,679 --> 02:31:38,779
induce hallucinations we know that

4081
02:31:43,300 --> 02:31:41,689
scientifically we don't know who pilots

4082
02:31:44,529 --> 02:31:43,310
these UFO crafts but we can't deny that

4083
02:31:46,510 --> 02:31:44,539
those are seen either because the

4084
02:31:47,679 --> 02:31:46,520
multitude of data that has been gathered

4085
02:31:49,599 --> 02:31:47,689
you know by various government agencies

4086
02:31:51,039 --> 02:31:49,609
you know and civilian organizations who

4087
02:31:52,599 --> 02:31:51,049
sometimes have done a better job than

4088
02:31:54,670 --> 02:31:52,609
the government agencies we know that

4089
02:31:56,469 --> 02:31:54,680
UFOs occur we don't know who the pilots

4090
02:31:57,909 --> 02:31:56,479
them from where they come if some one

4091
02:31:59,289 --> 02:31:57,919
pilots them and if they are aliens

4092
02:32:00,909 --> 02:31:59,299
little and whether people are being

4093
02:32:02,019 --> 02:32:00,919
abducted from their homes at night we

4094
02:32:04,119 --> 02:32:02,029
know with that we have evidence that

4095
02:32:05,800 --> 02:32:04,129
suggests that but have we jumped to

4096
02:32:08,199 --> 02:32:05,810
conclusions and drawn parallels between

4097
02:32:10,119 --> 02:32:08,209
two perhaps unrelated phenomenon that

4098
02:32:11,499 --> 02:32:10,129
just appear to have some sort of a

4099
02:32:13,029 --> 02:32:11,509
relationship is there a correlation

4100
02:32:14,619 --> 02:32:13,039
that's been made there over the years it

4101
02:32:16,420 --> 02:32:14,629
may not exist I think it's very likely

4102
02:32:18,639 --> 02:32:16,430
and however strange they may sound to

4103
02:32:20,800 --> 02:32:18,649
people more and more information is

4104
02:32:22,239 --> 02:32:20,810
coming out about the field of UFO and

4105
02:32:24,130 --> 02:32:22,249
abduction research that seems to be

4106
02:32:25,809 --> 02:32:24,140
pointing in directions other than where

4107
02:32:27,369 --> 02:32:25,819
we've been looking and kind of

4108
02:32:29,139 --> 02:32:27,379
capitalize on something Chris said and

4109
02:32:30,399 --> 02:32:29,149
has kind of been a theme that Chris has

4110
02:32:31,929 --> 02:32:30,409
been brought up bringing up throughout

4111
02:32:33,969 --> 02:32:31,939
the program you know we need to look at

4112
02:32:36,039 --> 02:32:33,979
its strange phenomenon and we need to

4113
02:32:37,659 --> 02:32:36,049
look at reports of the unusual a little

4114
02:32:39,219 --> 02:32:37,669
differently we need to stop taking for

4115
02:32:41,229 --> 02:32:39,229
granted things that people have said for

4116
02:32:42,639 --> 02:32:41,239
a hundred years about strange phenomenon

4117
02:32:45,010 --> 02:32:42,649
whether it be whether Mothman

4118
02:32:47,050 --> 02:32:45,020
traditionally has wings as we know it or

4119
02:32:49,210 --> 02:32:47,060
whether it be you know UFOs piloted by

4120
02:32:51,429 --> 02:32:49,220
you know god knows what or who you know

4121
02:32:53,949 --> 02:32:51,439
there's so much that we have assumed so

4122
02:32:55,269 --> 02:32:53,959
little that we do know and so little

4123
02:32:56,649 --> 02:32:55,279
that can be you know scientifically

4124
02:32:58,840 --> 02:32:56,659
justified if we want to be taken

4125
02:33:00,249 --> 02:32:58,850
seriously the true scientific processes

4126
02:33:01,539 --> 02:33:00,259
would not draw those kinds of

4127
02:33:02,949 --> 02:33:01,549
correlations and make those bold

4128
02:33:04,539 --> 02:33:02,959
assumptions without the evidence to back

4129
02:33:06,069 --> 02:33:04,549
them up so what are we really left with

4130
02:33:07,989 --> 02:33:06,079
who knows but that's what we're trying

4131
02:33:10,569 --> 02:33:07,999
to find out very good well stated

4132
02:33:13,239 --> 02:33:10,579
okay so trying to figure out where the

4133
02:33:15,159 --> 02:33:13,249
correlations are and maybe one of the

4134
02:33:17,050 --> 02:33:15,169
other things we see is whether or not

4135
02:33:19,090 --> 02:33:17,060
power and Alma researchers are

4136
02:33:21,729 --> 02:33:19,100
stretching themselves to want to have

4137
02:33:22,590 --> 02:33:21,739
everything be part of one singular

4138
02:33:25,269 --> 02:33:22,600
mystery

4139
02:33:28,539 --> 02:33:25,279
cryptozoology strange creatures UFOs

4140
02:33:31,749 --> 02:33:28,549
cattle mutilations ghosts everything has

4141
02:33:33,429 --> 02:33:31,759
to fit into one basket does it if they

4142
02:33:35,590 --> 02:33:33,439
do I would say that there has more to do

4143
02:33:38,260 --> 02:33:35,600
with human perception and again

4144
02:33:41,019 --> 02:33:38,270
consciousness than anything and how we

4145
02:33:42,279 --> 02:33:41,029
perceive strange phenomenon you know

4146
02:33:43,960 --> 02:33:42,289
that's the question I think that

4147
02:33:45,639 --> 02:33:43,970
sometimes you know there's that old I

4148
02:33:47,719 --> 02:33:45,649
think it was a Chinese proverb that said

4149
02:33:49,580 --> 02:33:47,729
that you know sometimes the path

4150
02:33:51,050 --> 02:33:49,590
you know the process of getting to some

4151
02:33:53,300 --> 02:33:51,060
place is more important than actually

4152
02:33:54,769 --> 02:33:53,310
reaching the destination I think that

4153
02:33:56,899 --> 02:33:54,779
the same thing may be the case with

4154
02:33:58,880 --> 02:33:56,909
strange phenomenon we look at creatures

4155
02:34:00,620 --> 02:33:58,890
like a Bigfoot and we focus so much on

4156
02:34:02,090 --> 02:34:00,630
what does what is the meaning of this

4157
02:34:04,069 --> 02:34:02,100
why was he there what was that thing

4158
02:34:06,950 --> 02:34:04,079
doing there at that time on that date in

4159
02:34:09,109 --> 02:34:06,960
that location obviously it wouldn't it

4160
02:34:11,000 --> 02:34:09,119
wouldn't be an issue why he was there

4161
02:34:13,010 --> 02:34:11,010
what he was doing there that Sasquatch

4162
02:34:15,710 --> 02:34:13,020
on that date at that time it wouldn't be

4163
02:34:17,479 --> 02:34:15,720
an issue if it didn't mean something to

4164
02:34:21,979 --> 02:34:17,489
us what is the significance what is the

4165
02:34:24,139 --> 02:34:21,989
meaning that we take on as humans and

4166
02:34:26,179 --> 02:34:24,149
that keeps us interested in that keeps

4167
02:34:28,340 --> 02:34:26,189
us fascinated this this desire to know

4168
02:34:29,989 --> 02:34:28,350
as humans we want to do that you know we

4169
02:34:31,880 --> 02:34:29,999
want to understand our surroundings we

4170
02:34:33,739 --> 02:34:31,890
want to know why and the reason these

4171
02:34:35,359 --> 02:34:33,749
things are unexplained and often

4172
02:34:37,309 --> 02:34:35,369
outright dismissed is because they just

4173
02:34:39,139 --> 02:34:37,319
fall so far outside what we call reality

4174
02:34:41,000 --> 02:34:39,149
but the thing is is I think that the

4175
02:34:42,979 --> 02:34:41,010
interrelationship we have with strange

4176
02:34:45,170 --> 02:34:42,989
phenomena we need to understand that we

4177
02:34:46,609 --> 02:34:45,180
need to understand the meaning why is it

4178
02:34:49,460 --> 02:34:46,619
that we are so interested in this what

4179
02:34:51,920 --> 02:34:49,470
what can we learn from our fascination

4180
02:34:53,689 --> 02:34:51,930
and and the potentials that could exist

4181
02:34:55,160 --> 02:34:53,699
aside from just trying to categorize and

4182
02:34:56,239 --> 02:34:55,170
gather reports of these things we can do

4183
02:34:58,639 --> 02:34:56,249
that all day and people have been doing

4184
02:35:00,229 --> 02:34:58,649
that for decades but what if we what

4185
02:35:02,090 --> 02:35:00,239
have we learned you know we've got a lot

4186
02:35:03,620 --> 02:35:02,100
of books that describe reports of UFOs

4187
02:35:04,939 --> 02:35:03,630
and encounters with Bigfoot and things

4188
02:35:06,830 --> 02:35:04,949
like that but people aren't trying to

4189
02:35:09,319 --> 02:35:06,840
look at those encounters and they're not

4190
02:35:10,700 --> 02:35:09,329
trying to understand the meaning of the

4191
02:35:11,989 --> 02:35:10,710
interrelationship you know and that's

4192
02:35:14,090 --> 02:35:11,999
what what I kind of think what we have

4193
02:35:16,149 --> 02:35:14,100
to do but in terms of is there some sort

4194
02:35:18,769 --> 02:35:16,159
of something that interconnects all this

4195
02:35:20,389 --> 02:35:18,779
if there is again I think that that has

4196
02:35:22,279 --> 02:35:20,399
more to do with understanding that in a

4197
02:35:23,510 --> 02:35:22,289
relationship human perception and what

4198
02:35:25,550 --> 02:35:23,520
it has to do with consciousness in

4199
02:35:27,200 --> 02:35:25,560
general well it also goes back to

4200
02:35:29,779 --> 02:35:27,210
whether there is a mystery to be found

4201
02:35:32,359 --> 02:35:29,789
anyway oh yeah of course that goes back

4202
02:35:34,910 --> 02:35:32,369
to the basic question not why are they

4203
02:35:37,609 --> 02:35:34,920
here but who are they and if we resolved

4204
02:35:40,160 --> 02:35:37,619
who they might be and that goes for UFOs

4205
02:35:42,139 --> 02:35:40,170
or any of these other mysteries then

4206
02:35:44,689 --> 02:35:42,149
maybe we would be in a position to

4207
02:35:46,160 --> 02:35:44,699
figure out why they're here and maybe

4208
02:35:48,200 --> 02:35:46,170
we're not meant to know that maybe they

4209
02:35:51,200 --> 02:35:48,210
don't want us to know or they want us to

4210
02:35:53,269 --> 02:35:51,210
know in little tidbits as we're ready to

4211
02:35:56,300 --> 02:35:53,279
know the next tidbit of information and

4212
02:35:58,309 --> 02:35:56,310
so we keep on the quest but we never

4213
02:36:00,529 --> 02:35:58,319
quite get there but we keep moving on

4214
02:36:01,090 --> 02:36:00,539
Myka Hanks where do we find more of the

4215
02:36:02,710 --> 02:36:01,100
stuff the

4216
02:36:04,330 --> 02:36:02,720
you write and talk about well I'm

4217
02:36:06,460 --> 02:36:04,340
writing prolifically these days for

4218
02:36:08,679 --> 02:36:06,470
mysterious universe org and you can of

4219
02:36:10,300 --> 02:36:08,689
course visit that URL and read mine and

4220
02:36:11,530 --> 02:36:10,310
Nick Redferns articles my brother from

4221
02:36:12,460 --> 02:36:11,540
another mother you know Nick and I are

4222
02:36:14,019 --> 02:36:12,470
gonna have to write a book eventually

4223
02:36:15,370 --> 02:36:14,029
together because we keep popping up in

4224
02:36:18,099 --> 02:36:15,380
all the same places UFO magazine

4225
02:36:19,929 --> 02:36:18,109
intrepid magazine do check out intrepid

4226
02:36:21,189 --> 02:36:19,939
magazine calm that's a new magazine I've

4227
02:36:23,229 --> 02:36:21,199
been working with along with Scott

4228
02:36:24,849 --> 02:36:23,239
Roberts good friend and you know it's

4229
02:36:26,410 --> 02:36:24,859
been a wonderful project and a great

4230
02:36:28,059 --> 02:36:26,420
undertaking for us but of course you

4231
02:36:31,030 --> 02:36:28,069
know Micah Hanks is personal blog the

4232
02:36:33,399 --> 02:36:31,040
graylien report is triple w dot G RAL

4233
02:36:35,290 --> 02:36:33,409
ien report calm and you can always get

4234
02:36:37,540 --> 02:36:35,300
your your strange and unusual news

4235
02:36:40,389 --> 02:36:37,550
updates there Chris O'Brien where do we

4236
02:36:44,290 --> 02:36:40,399
find your stuff well I tend to be on the

4237
02:36:46,389 --> 02:36:44,300
for america.com boards quite a bit and

4238
02:36:48,729 --> 02:36:46,399
also I have my own website our strange

4239
02:36:50,830 --> 02:36:48,739
planet comm and we have a link now in

4240
02:36:53,019 --> 02:36:50,840
the power cast forums you go there with

4241
02:36:54,910 --> 02:36:53,029
a single click Micah Hanks thanks for

4242
02:37:01,179 --> 02:36:54,920
joining us this week on the para cast

4243
02:37:06,170 --> 02:37:03,800
Paris is a calculated presentation of

4244
02:37:08,500 --> 02:37:06,180
making the impossible incorporated tune